Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Monks Are Not Tanks And Shouldn’t Be
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Staffan" data-source="post: 9073884" data-attributes="member: 907"><p>At level 5, the 3.5e fighter has three additional feats over the paladin. These can be used for things like Power Attack and the fighter-exclusive Weapon Specialization, or possibly getting access to swanky exotic weapons.</p><p></p><p>The paladin has Smite Evil 2/day, +Cha to all saves, Lay on Hands for level x Cha hp of healing per day, immunity to fear and give nearby allies +4 to saves vs fear, immunity to disease, a low-power version of Turn Undead, and possibly a 1st-level spell per day (depending on Wis).</p><p></p><p>The paladin also has way more MAD than the fighter. The fighter wants high Strength and Constitution, and ideally an OK Dexterity to max the benefits of full plate and decent Intelligence to unlock the fairly sweet feats with Combat Expertise as a prerequisite (e.g. Improved Trip). The paladin wants the same Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity, but also need Charisma for their special abilities and a little bit of Wisdom for their spells.</p><p></p><p>The problem for the fighter is that feats are a fairly flat progression. At 5th level, the fighter probably has the edge on the paladin in an actual fight, since most of the paladin's special abilities would be irrelevant and the fighter probably has +1 AC (Dodge) and +2 damage (Weapon spec) over the paladin, and possibly access to shenanigans like Improved Trip. But there are very few feats with higher prerequisites than (effectively) 6th level. You have the continuation of the Weapon Specialization chain with Greater Weapon Focus at 8th and Greater Weapon Spec at 12th, Improved Critical at 8th, and there's Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Precise Shot at 11th. Oh, and technically Stunning Fist at 8th. But other than those, there's really nothing new happening for the fighter – they get bigger numbers, and if they have the stats for it they can expand into other feat chains, but there's nothing exciting happening. Admittedly paladins don't get much excitement either after 6th level, but they at least get access to higher-level spells.</p><p></p><p>Both classes get significantly better with more splatbook access. Partially because they offer prestige classes you can take instead of the lackluster high-level benefits these classes offer, and because they offer alternate options. Fighters get way more options for their feats, including some that are actually pretty fun, and paladins get divine feats they can take to actually get some use out of their otherwise useless Turn Undead attempts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Staffan, post: 9073884, member: 907"] At level 5, the 3.5e fighter has three additional feats over the paladin. These can be used for things like Power Attack and the fighter-exclusive Weapon Specialization, or possibly getting access to swanky exotic weapons. The paladin has Smite Evil 2/day, +Cha to all saves, Lay on Hands for level x Cha hp of healing per day, immunity to fear and give nearby allies +4 to saves vs fear, immunity to disease, a low-power version of Turn Undead, and possibly a 1st-level spell per day (depending on Wis). The paladin also has way more MAD than the fighter. The fighter wants high Strength and Constitution, and ideally an OK Dexterity to max the benefits of full plate and decent Intelligence to unlock the fairly sweet feats with Combat Expertise as a prerequisite (e.g. Improved Trip). The paladin wants the same Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity, but also need Charisma for their special abilities and a little bit of Wisdom for their spells. The problem for the fighter is that feats are a fairly flat progression. At 5th level, the fighter probably has the edge on the paladin in an actual fight, since most of the paladin's special abilities would be irrelevant and the fighter probably has +1 AC (Dodge) and +2 damage (Weapon spec) over the paladin, and possibly access to shenanigans like Improved Trip. But there are very few feats with higher prerequisites than (effectively) 6th level. You have the continuation of the Weapon Specialization chain with Greater Weapon Focus at 8th and Greater Weapon Spec at 12th, Improved Critical at 8th, and there's Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Precise Shot at 11th. Oh, and technically Stunning Fist at 8th. But other than those, there's really nothing new happening for the fighter – they get bigger numbers, and if they have the stats for it they can expand into other feat chains, but there's nothing exciting happening. Admittedly paladins don't get much excitement either after 6th level, but they at least get access to higher-level spells. Both classes get significantly better with more splatbook access. Partially because they offer prestige classes you can take instead of the lackluster high-level benefits these classes offer, and because they offer alternate options. Fighters get way more options for their feats, including some that are actually pretty fun, and paladins get divine feats they can take to actually get some use out of their otherwise useless Turn Undead attempts. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Monks Are Not Tanks And Shouldn’t Be
Top