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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2064028" data-attributes="member: 2011">I do not disagree on this. Those are other good fringe benefits. But, I'm looking at the big picture here. Check out the normal AC disadvantage chart I listed below.And, these relatively minor benefits do not change much. If you have a Periapt of Wisdom and a Monk's Belt, you STILL are going to suck up most of your magical items at low to mid levels just for this.You will die for other reasons.The touch AC thing is a benefit, but it is fairly minor. It's a help, but you will still get touched for save or die effects half of the time at low to mid levels and over half at mid to high levels anyway. Do the math (this is one of the problems here, people form opinions without doing any of the math).Enemy Cleric tries to touch you at various levels (and most touch spells are held until the touch succeeds, so occasionally this will bump it back a round). With a 12 Str enemy Cleric versus a Cleric of Dex 12 and Wis 18 the chances to hit become for the Monk's Belt and the armor (starting at level 5 , the level before a PC can first afford the Monk's Belt):05 70% 70%06 55% 75% (Wisdom 19, no other items according to wealth chart)07 55% 80% (Wisdom 19 + Periapt of Wisdom +2, most of wealth)08 55% 85% (Wisdom 20 + Periapt of Wisdom +2)09 50% 85% (Wisdom 20 + Periapt of Wisdom +4, most of wealth)10 50% 90% (Wisdom 20 + Periapt of Wisdom +6, all of wealth)After level 10, it starts going back up again. Granted, this is very very cool. But, it is not game breaking. And, the character had to pretty much suck up all of his wealth to gain this and had to start the game out at first level with an 18 Wis. Pure min-maxing here. Also, if he does not go out and get Periapts of Wisdom, then these numbers will not be as good.Now, let's look at the same levels for normal AC. Normal AC is used over 90% of the time against attacks, touch AC is used maybe 5% of the time. Here, let's use an enemy Fighter with 14 STR attacking and the Fighter increases his BAB by one each level and his to hit by one every other level due to magic, strength increase, feats, etc.05 45% 45% (assume Monk's Belt Cleric had same armor as Armor Cleric at this level)06 80% 55%07 85% 60%08 95% 70%09 95% 75%10 95% 85%Do the math. 50% where the spell is still held for next round on a 5% chance of it occurring versus 20% chance 90% of the time.That's a HUGE drop in AC in order to get the other benefits. This Monk's Belt guy is a walking pin cushion. Even lower level threats are going to hit him a LOT. And, it gets WORSE if he does not min-max Wisdom and attempt to get other AC boosting items (like Periapts of Wisdom, Gloves of Dexterity, etc.).AND, this is without the Armor Cleric beefing up his AC with a single magical item. If he does that, the chance to hit delta will be even larger.The Monk's Belt Cleric is taking a HUGE HUGE hit in AC in order to get this. A Cleric having an AC in the 20 to 22 range at level 10 is almost like being a Wizard. He would have to stay out of combat completely.Also, the fact is that the normal AC is going to protect a character a LOT more than touch AC ever will.And, all of this assumes that the Monk's Belt Cleric can acquire a lot of other magical items to boost his Wisdom, Dexterity, and AC. Chances are he cannot find just what he is looking for in most campaigns and he shouldn't have the wealth to do so in many campaigns.These are all good points. It is a nice item. It is not a must have item because normal AC will suffer for most classes.While this character (above) is getting this item(s), he has very few other items. When other PCs have much better normal AC, slightly better saves, slightly better to hits, etc. due to other magical items, this character does not even have a magical weapon and has to cast a spell to acquire it.How often does touch AC come up in a game? Once per session maybe??? And with 4 or 5 PCs, it will often not be the Cleric who gets touched.How many skill points per level do most Clerics have? Enough that armor check penalties actually come into play?Granted, the reduced movement is an issue. The same issue it is for many other melee types (and Clerics are melee types as often as they are spell casters, they are half way between the two ability-wise).But again, reduced movement occurs in every game and PCs do not often die because of it (sometimes, but rarely).This combination is probably suicidal for Clerics. It isn't much better for Druids. It's a good item for a Monk. It's lousy for all other classes except it's ok for Sorcerers and Wizards, but they will tend to have Wisdom <= 14 and it is only +3 AC in that case (and 13K is still a big chunk of their magical item wealth).All in all, I do not think you are looking at the big picture.</blockquote>

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