Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2076429" data-attributes="member: 2011">It seems a bit like power gaming for high level by sacrificing low level to me.Although this sounds convincing on the surface, I think it is a little bit flawed in practice in the case where the Druid actually goes from level 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc. It is less flawed in the case where the campaign starts out at 15th level and players can start out with whatever equipment they want.The numbers are ok, but the problem is:What kind of AC did the Druid have from levels 1 through 10 in order to survive and get to level 11?The wealth chart goes:02 90003 270004 540005 900006 1300007 1900008 2700009 3600010 4900011 6600012 8800013 11000014 15000015 200000Now, the Druid could outright acquire the Monk's Belt at level 10 (since there is a 13000 GP gap between levels 9 and 10), however, this does break the 25% rule.So, the earliest he could get the Bracers +3 AC is level 9, the earliest he could get the Monk's Belt is level 11, and the earliest he could get the Periapt of Wisdom +4 is level 12.He buys the Periapt of Wisdom +6 at level 14 and the Bracers of AC +7 at level 15 and all is right with the world.Course, he spent most of his newly acquired wealth on 4 of the last 6 levels, but that's ok. He can do that.His normal/touch/wild shaped AC at various levels was (I will include +1 dex +2 natural armor for black bear at level 5, +5 natural armor for brown bear at level 8, and +7 natural armor for dire bear at level 12, I did not include Gloves of Dexterity to any of the builds because he could not use them in wild shape and still get claw attacks IMO):1 to 4: 14/105 to 7: 15/11/14 (+1 Ring of Protection)08: 16/12/17 (+2 Ring of Protection)09: 17/12/20 (Bracers of AC+3 since he can use the bracers and ring in wild shape)10: 18/13/21 (+1 Ioun stone)11: 23/18/26 (Monk's Belt)12: 26/21/31 (Periapt of Wisdom +4)13: 26/21/3114: 27/22/32 (Periapt of Wisdom +6)15: 31/22/36 (Bracers of AC+7)2K + 8K + 9K + 5K + 13K + 16K + 36K + 49K = 138KAnd, he is min-maxing his stats at first level in order to do this much later on in the game. From first to fourth level, he cannot wildshape at all and has to survive with only two stats above +0.So, he is pretty much stuck at lower levels with leather armor and a shield and Barkskin until he slowly acquires smaller AC boosting items such as a Ring of Protection +1. His chances of surviving at lower levels is significantly less.Let's compare that to the Druid who actually wants to survive at lower levels.str 14, dex 14, con 14, int 10, wis 15, cha 8. Strength 14 allows him to actually carry a reasonable amount of equipment and it allows feats with str 13 mins and it gives him +2 to hit and +2 damage at levels 1 through 4 when he cannot wild shape (and also at higher levels when he can no longer wild shape during the day). Dexterity 14 allows for a +2 AC and Reflex boost and feats with dex 13 mins such as Dodge. He does take the -1 to Will saves in this build and -1 skill per level (course, he could always go str 12 and int 12 instead).His AC at various levels was:1 to 4: 16/125 to 7: 17/13/14 (+1 Ring of Protection)08: 18/14/17 (+2 Ring of Protection)09: 19/14/20 (Bracers of AC +3, to gain AC in wild shape mostly)10: 20/15/21 (+1 Ioun stone)11: 22/15/23 (+2 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield)12: 22/15/23 (Periapt of Wisdom +2, he doesn't need all of that wisdom, but this is cheap)13: 26/15/27 (+2 Wild Dragonscale Breastplate )14: 26/15/27 (Periapt of Wisdom +4, just so that he does not fall too far behind in spells)15: 29/15/30 (+5 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield)2K + 8K + 9K + 5K + 16K + 4K + 28K + 16K + 49K = 137KThis druid will survive easier at most levels until he hits level 12. And, he still can boost his AC from armor in the future another +3. The Monk's Belt Druid can only boost his armor AC 1 more (Bracers of Armor +8, using core rules).Finally, let's compare with the stats from the second Druid using the Monk's Belt.1 to 4: 16/125 to 7: 17/13/14 (+1 Ring of Protection)08: 18/14/17 (+2 Ring of Protection)09: 19/14/20 (Bracers of AC +3)10: 20/15/21 (+1 Ioun stone)11: 22/19/25 (Monk's Belt)12: 25/22/30 (Periapt of Wisdom +4)13: 25/22/3014: 26/23/31 (Periapt of Wisdom +6)15: 30/23/35 (Bracers of AC+7)2K + 8K + 9K + 5K + 13K + 16K + 36K + 49K = 138KThis is the best build of the lot (and Monk 1 / Druid X is even better at lower level both AC and saves). He has a better chance of survival at lower level and only gave up 1 AC, 1 on Wisdom saves, and a few spells at higher level to accomplish this.AC is critical at lower levels. At higher levels, it does not matter as much unless you can boost it really high. Other aspects of the game (such as saving throws) matter a lot more because you will be getting hit a LOT more in combat at the higher levels.There is no doubt about it. The Monk's Belt helps the Druid class more than most other classes. But, it is not absolutely required. It will give you a decent AC especially in wild shape (still not great) and it meshes well with the Periapt of Wisdom. It is good if you want to wildshape in combat a lot, but your AC even in this case is not that special for a combatant (e.g. 15th level Fighter with +5 Mithral Plate, +5 Shield, Dex 16 is AC 33 for a mere 56K without any other Dex boosting items, he can easily get another +7 AC for AC 40 from a +4 Ring of protection and Amulet of Natural Armor +3 and still only spend 120K total).Note: These are a bit of extreme examples. Charisma 8 is definitely a "let's let the other PCs do most of the roleplaying" stat. And in real game play, it is unlikely that a PC druid will actually get ALL of these AC boost items in any of the builds. Hence, the reason to not have Wis 17 and spread those extra 5 points into other useful stats like Strength and Dexterity (and even Charisma). Spells will help you to survive at higher levels, but stats will help you more at lower levels. IMO.</blockquote>

Verification