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<blockquote data-quote="akbearfoot" data-source="post: 5288340" data-attributes="member: 33560">When I consider the option of giving new powers to players, I don't balance those powers against the strongest 3 classes from the core rules (cleric wizard druid).&nbsp; I think fighters are THE weakest class in core, which is sad considering how bad bard and monk both are in core.&nbsp; I've never played in a game that had 10 encounters in a day, or even more than 3 or 4.&nbsp; In my 17 years of gaming with about a half dozen different groups It has always been the spellcasters setting the pace of the game.&nbsp; They say &quot;Im out of high level spells&quot; and the party retreats to rest till spells come back.Give everybody pounce and unlimited high damage attacks every round and it's not 3.5e anymore.&nbsp; It's more like a Tome of Battle/4E.&nbsp; Healing Belts and really cheap wands of lesser vigor mean you dont even need a healer if nobody wants to play one.For me it is a difference of degrees...give a core only fighter with core only magic items Pounce...sure, no problem.&nbsp; Give it to a warforged fist of the forest monk with a Wounding battle fist and 7 natural attacks that hit for 20-40 damage each that bypasses every relevant damage reduction in the game?&nbsp; Thats game breaking.&nbsp; Same problem with the Uber power attacking barbarian.&nbsp; The one thing that limits them is their hitpoints.&nbsp; If they have the ability to basically obliterate any single monster they approach every time they get a turn, then hitpoints cease to be a limiting factor.&nbsp; Not to mention the value of the action economy.&nbsp; The ability to pounce is in what, one or 2 maneuvers in the Tome of Battle?&nbsp; Maneuvers can only be used once, maybe twice in any given encounter, depending on how many actions you are willing to sacrifice to recharge them.&nbsp; And even then, only swordsages can take them, or someone with lots or initiator levels and PrC levels in martial classes. I would agree that martial adepts are still not as powerful as even core CODzilla. But they are certainly more powerful than core only fighters/monks/bards/rogues/paladins/rangers.Not to mention it raises the bar for monsters big time...afterall if the PCs can do it so can the trolls and giants and grey renders that normally would only ever get 1 attack when they charged the wimpy wizard in the back ranks.In regards to the OP.&nbsp; I think Monks generally are weak, Even with help from multiple splatbooks, they will generallly not be overpowered.&nbsp; But a munchkin player with an optimized 'Pounce build' will ruin your game.&nbsp; So to fix the potential problem, simply ban pounce.&nbsp; That is my advice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="akbearfoot, post: 5288340, member: 33560"] When I consider the option of giving new powers to players, I don't balance those powers against the strongest 3 classes from the core rules (cleric wizard druid). I think fighters are THE weakest class in core, which is sad considering how bad bard and monk both are in core. I've never played in a game that had 10 encounters in a day, or even more than 3 or 4. In my 17 years of gaming with about a half dozen different groups It has always been the spellcasters setting the pace of the game. They say "Im out of high level spells" and the party retreats to rest till spells come back. Give everybody pounce and unlimited high damage attacks every round and it's not 3.5e anymore. It's more like a Tome of Battle/4E. Healing Belts and really cheap wands of lesser vigor mean you dont even need a healer if nobody wants to play one. For me it is a difference of degrees...give a core only fighter with core only magic items Pounce...sure, no problem. Give it to a warforged fist of the forest monk with a Wounding battle fist and 7 natural attacks that hit for 20-40 damage each that bypasses every relevant damage reduction in the game? Thats game breaking. Same problem with the Uber power attacking barbarian. The one thing that limits them is their hitpoints. If they have the ability to basically obliterate any single monster they approach every time they get a turn, then hitpoints cease to be a limiting factor. Not to mention the value of the action economy. The ability to pounce is in what, one or 2 maneuvers in the Tome of Battle? Maneuvers can only be used once, maybe twice in any given encounter, depending on how many actions you are willing to sacrifice to recharge them. And even then, only swordsages can take them, or someone with lots or initiator levels and PrC levels in martial classes. I would agree that martial adepts are still not as powerful as even core CODzilla. But they are certainly more powerful than core only fighters/monks/bards/rogues/paladins/rangers. Not to mention it raises the bar for monsters big time...afterall if the PCs can do it so can the trolls and giants and grey renders that normally would only ever get 1 attack when they charged the wimpy wizard in the back ranks. In regards to the OP. I think Monks generally are weak, Even with help from multiple splatbooks, they will generallly not be overpowered. But a munchkin player with an optimized 'Pounce build' will ruin your game. So to fix the potential problem, simply ban pounce. That is my advice. [/QUOTE]

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