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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gizzard" data-source="post: 161413" data-attributes="member: 527">> Monks with max ranks in Jump, Climb, Balance, Tumble, > Swim, hide, move silently, and listen can be fun.I went down this path myself because it fit my conception of what a Monk should be.  Unfortunately, this bag of nimble tricks isnt as generally useful as being good at combat.  Its kinda cool when you pull off some nifty, risky manuever than no one else can, but I'd trade the whole basket for something wicked like the Rogue's Sneak Attack.  I'll Tumble into combat or run along a wall using Balance just for the heck of it, but thats really more for Monk "flavor" than for Monk "usefulness".  Hide and Move Silent are a different kettle of fish.  The problem with them is that if you are Human then you get the skill points, but you dont get darkvision.  Without darkvision, these skills are difficult to employ underground due to the light-source problem.  If you think you are going to be adventuring above-ground a lot, then they are much better; if not you want to consider being a Half-Orc.  ;-)> Some of the Monks I've seen have been skill based, in > particular a (OA) Monk/Rogue. From a quick look, some of the OA Monks were much more diverse, interesting and flavorful than the PHB Monk.  But mixing discussion of them with the Classic Monk is probably dangerous; like giving advice to a Wizard based on your experience playing a Sorcerer.As for my Monk, I made him when 3E came out because I thought it would be interesting to play a new class.  I didnt really worry about optimizing him; I just picked a bunch of Feats and Skills that I thought felt "in character" based on Chinese Martial Arts movies.  But he is easily one of the least useful characters in the party; now dropping below the Bard who gained Cure Light at her last level.  Although I expect (hope!) the Monks usefulness to increase again as we begin to face more dangerous spellcasters (which Monks are supposedly good against), my point is that you really should consider your Monk carefully.  The class is inherently weaker than the basic classes (IMHO) and if you are not careful you'll have a character who cant do much to help the party.</blockquote>

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