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<blockquote data-quote="Dessert Nomad" data-source="post: 7528483" data-attributes="member: 6976536"><p>I don't consider 'I want to be a standard X, but in addition be really good at Y without having to pay the costs normally associated with it' to be a legitimate "concept" for a character - in general "I just want to do more, and do it better, and not have to give anything up" isn't what I file as 'character concept'. "I want to be a wizard who wears plate also don't want to take a level of fighter or any feats to do it" is a thing someone can ask for, but isn't something I would consider a character concept in the usual sense of the term. A concept to me is about how a characters abilities work narratively, not "I get free grapples without spending a feat or ki points".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I doubt I would enjoy your game, because for me part of the fun of playing D&D is the challenge of making an effective character and fighting monsters within the rules of the game. Claiming that someone is 'hung up on the idea' of actually playing a game using rules when that's the central appeal of playing a game to them is using the rules is not reasonable; it's like claiming that someone needs to get over their hangups if you're playing chess and they start moving the bishop horizontally. Painting people as 'hung up' and 'unable to handle' if their interest in the game is actually dealing with the rules is simply unfair to them. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't understand why you'd play a rules-heavy game centered around classed characters like D&D, but also sometimes run it like a rules-light game. If you want to play a game where you just do whatever and sometimes roll funny dice, why are you bothering with D&D books in the first place? There are rules-lite systems that do this with a lot less overhead than the D&D rules that you're ditching whenever you want to play concepts like "a wizard who also wears plate but doesn't have the drag of multiclassing or using feats" or "Monk who also wants to grapple really good but doesn't want to spend any points on strength and doesn't want to take the grapple feat or use ki points for grappling". </p><p></p><p>I know that if I wanted to play a game where I just do 'whatever' and end up pretty good at it, I'd play in a system where that's how it works up front, not a version D&D. There's nothing wrong with playing a D&D game where you ignore large chunks of the rules on a whim, but there is something wrong with claiming that people who don't enjoy playing that way have something wrong with them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dessert Nomad, post: 7528483, member: 6976536"] I don't consider 'I want to be a standard X, but in addition be really good at Y without having to pay the costs normally associated with it' to be a legitimate "concept" for a character - in general "I just want to do more, and do it better, and not have to give anything up" isn't what I file as 'character concept'. "I want to be a wizard who wears plate also don't want to take a level of fighter or any feats to do it" is a thing someone can ask for, but isn't something I would consider a character concept in the usual sense of the term. A concept to me is about how a characters abilities work narratively, not "I get free grapples without spending a feat or ki points". I doubt I would enjoy your game, because for me part of the fun of playing D&D is the challenge of making an effective character and fighting monsters within the rules of the game. Claiming that someone is 'hung up on the idea' of actually playing a game using rules when that's the central appeal of playing a game to them is using the rules is not reasonable; it's like claiming that someone needs to get over their hangups if you're playing chess and they start moving the bishop horizontally. Painting people as 'hung up' and 'unable to handle' if their interest in the game is actually dealing with the rules is simply unfair to them. I don't understand why you'd play a rules-heavy game centered around classed characters like D&D, but also sometimes run it like a rules-light game. If you want to play a game where you just do whatever and sometimes roll funny dice, why are you bothering with D&D books in the first place? There are rules-lite systems that do this with a lot less overhead than the D&D rules that you're ditching whenever you want to play concepts like "a wizard who also wears plate but doesn't have the drag of multiclassing or using feats" or "Monk who also wants to grapple really good but doesn't want to spend any points on strength and doesn't want to take the grapple feat or use ki points for grappling". I know that if I wanted to play a game where I just do 'whatever' and end up pretty good at it, I'd play in a system where that's how it works up front, not a version D&D. There's nothing wrong with playing a D&D game where you ignore large chunks of the rules on a whim, but there is something wrong with claiming that people who don't enjoy playing that way have something wrong with them. [/QUOTE]
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