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<blockquote data-quote="Naathez" data-source="post: 2021559" data-attributes="member: 17791"><p>Usually people apologize AFTER saying something. For a twist, i'll apologize BEFORE. </p><p></p><p><strong><em>I apologize.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>Now that that's out of the way. Is there nobody - nobody else - who finds debating whether a PUNCH is a melee weapon or just something that you use in melee and works like a weapon, quite just a little tiny eensy weensy bit... exaggerated?</p><p></p><p>Besides being , I believe, out of point with the thread, frankly I am starting to fear that referring to the RAW can in some ways prove damaging to good debating.</p><p></p><p>A. If the point is to prove " LOOK! the RAW is so silly , and self contradictory, WHAT were they thinking when they wrote it??!" ... well, frankly, been there, done that. In any case, the RAW, at least I think, does not state that a bow needs to have a string to be fired. But I'd think we'd all frown a little bit on a player saying that, since it's not stated, he can fire an unstrung bow. And I think that the fact a PUNCH (KICK, ELBOW STRIKE, HEADBUTT) is a melee weapon for ANY practical purpose is just as logical.</p><p>B. If the point is to decide whether powers, spells, and magical thingamabobs work on monk's natural attacks, well, I seem to remember RAW states they DO. And even if it doesn't do it in terms clear enough to satisfy any lawyer west of Timbuktu, its SPIRIT does.</p><p></p><p>People... I may be ranting, it's a harsh day. I apologized JUST for that reason. But I believe there's a point where discussing rules becomes sincerely.. absurd. </p><p></p><p></p><p>"A melee unarmed attack isn't a melee weapon. It's something that <u>does the same job</u>, it's something that <u>beneficiates from the same effects</u>, it's something that <u>works exactly the same</u>, but it's <em>not a melee weapon</em>."</p><p></p><p>...does nobody else see.. how pointless the WHOLE thing is? How it does NOT matter? What matters is that the SPIRIT of the rules and the game suggests that the ways to empower the combat tools a monk uses (unarmed attacks too) are the SAME used to empower a sword, a dagger, or a spiked chain. What matters is the GAME, what matters is the STORIES, what matters is NOT discussing whether I can call a MELEE weapon something i use from 5 feet away to strike you in the face.</p><p></p><p>I may be unpopular with what I said. I hope I was not rude. But truly, some rules debates (this one got picked as the spark that lit the powders) are... are out of place. Out of common sense.</p><p></p><p>20 GOTO "I apologize" Line.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Naathez, post: 2021559, member: 17791"] Usually people apologize AFTER saying something. For a twist, i'll apologize BEFORE. [B][I]I apologize.[/I][/B] Now that that's out of the way. Is there nobody - nobody else - who finds debating whether a PUNCH is a melee weapon or just something that you use in melee and works like a weapon, quite just a little tiny eensy weensy bit... exaggerated? Besides being , I believe, out of point with the thread, frankly I am starting to fear that referring to the RAW can in some ways prove damaging to good debating. A. If the point is to prove " LOOK! the RAW is so silly , and self contradictory, WHAT were they thinking when they wrote it??!" ... well, frankly, been there, done that. In any case, the RAW, at least I think, does not state that a bow needs to have a string to be fired. But I'd think we'd all frown a little bit on a player saying that, since it's not stated, he can fire an unstrung bow. And I think that the fact a PUNCH (KICK, ELBOW STRIKE, HEADBUTT) is a melee weapon for ANY practical purpose is just as logical. B. If the point is to decide whether powers, spells, and magical thingamabobs work on monk's natural attacks, well, I seem to remember RAW states they DO. And even if it doesn't do it in terms clear enough to satisfy any lawyer west of Timbuktu, its SPIRIT does. People... I may be ranting, it's a harsh day. I apologized JUST for that reason. But I believe there's a point where discussing rules becomes sincerely.. absurd. "A melee unarmed attack isn't a melee weapon. It's something that [U]does the same job[/U], it's something that [U]beneficiates from the same effects[/U], it's something that [U]works exactly the same[/U], but it's [I]not a melee weapon[/I]." ...does nobody else see.. how pointless the WHOLE thing is? How it does NOT matter? What matters is that the SPIRIT of the rules and the game suggests that the ways to empower the combat tools a monk uses (unarmed attacks too) are the SAME used to empower a sword, a dagger, or a spiked chain. What matters is the GAME, what matters is the STORIES, what matters is NOT discussing whether I can call a MELEE weapon something i use from 5 feet away to strike you in the face. I may be unpopular with what I said. I hope I was not rude. But truly, some rules debates (this one got picked as the spark that lit the powders) are... are out of place. Out of common sense. 20 GOTO "I apologize" Line. [/QUOTE]
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