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<blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 8049248" data-attributes="member: 6788736">Why is damage always the indicator of combat effectiveness? Interesting since it comes from Treantmonk who decries 'blaster' Wizards (who do damage) in favour of 'God' wizards (who impose status effects).The base-line Monk (no MC) can do amazing things with status effects, with one of the nastiest ones (Stunned) which is also the least resisted (Helmed horror, Revenant and Demi-Lich only). You're incapacitated, grant advantage on attack rolls against you, cant move or take actions or reactions, automatically fail Str and Dex saves until the start of the Monks next turn.That is a death sentence for anyone who fails that save.They also have the mobility built into the class to ensure that they can close with a priority target (spell caster, boss monster) and can confidently deliver that nasty status effect on Round 1.They're also amazing at softening up legendaries. Stunned is a condition that (if the Con save is failed) will always burn a LR (it's too nasty not to) and they can spam multiple stuns per turn, ablating those LR's in a round or two.And I dont get how the Monk has bad defences. Ki Dodge, deflect missiles, Slow fall, evasion, stillness of mind, purity of body, diamond soul, timeless body and empty body are all great defensive abilities on the core chassis.What does the core Fighter get as a defensive ability? Indomitable?The problem with Monks is I see people play them as a Tank, and not as a Striker., and Treantmonk seems to be criticising them based on them being bad at being Tanks, when that's not the role they're built for.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Flamestrike, post: 8049248, member: 6788736"] Why is [I]damage [/I]always the indicator of combat effectiveness? Interesting since it comes from Treantmonk who decries 'blaster' Wizards (who do damage) in favour of 'God' wizards (who impose status effects). The base-line Monk (no MC) can do [I]amazing [/I]things with status effects, with one of the nastiest ones (Stunned) which is also the least resisted (Helmed horror, Revenant and Demi-Lich only). You're incapacitated, grant advantage on attack rolls against you, cant move or take actions or reactions, automatically fail Str and Dex saves until the start of the Monks next turn. That is a death sentence for anyone who fails that save. They also have the mobility built into the class to ensure that they can close with a priority target (spell caster, boss monster) and can confidently deliver that nasty status effect on Round 1. They're also amazing at softening up legendaries. Stunned is a condition that (if the Con save is failed) will always burn a LR (it's too nasty not to) and they can spam multiple stuns per turn, ablating those LR's in a round or two. And I dont get how the Monk has bad defences. Ki Dodge, deflect missiles, Slow fall, evasion, stillness of mind, purity of body, diamond soul, timeless body and empty body are all great defensive abilities on the core chassis. What does the core Fighter get as a defensive ability? Indomitable? The problem with Monks is I see people play them as a [I]Tank[/I], and not as a [I]Striker[/I]., and Treantmonk seems to be criticising them based on them being bad at being Tanks, when that's not the role they're built for. [/QUOTE]

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