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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8049623" data-attributes="member: 18">They're not though. That's the thing. They're sub-par to okay at a constellation of things, and good at one thing. I mean sub-par when I say it - i.e. slightly below what you'd expect. Their damage is unimpressive. Their mobility is not really remarkable (and mobility is questionable in how good it actually is in 5E anyway, if it's not teleporting - the more I play 5E the less I see non-teleport mobility actually helping). Their defenses are okay - they don't have great AC or HP, but they have some tricks and can burn Ki to put Disadvantage on melee attackers.Yawn. You're the only one here you is even pretending people think DPR is everything. Nobody thinks that. It's a ridiculous thing people bring up to try and make out that other criticism of a class isn't valid.It's just like you bringing up two arguments that don't even really contradict each other and then trying to imply that because there's this vague sense of potential contradiction, people's arguments are random nonsense. But that's actually a totally irrational and illogical approach. It has no substance whatsoever.Stunning Strike is easily calculated into DPR anyway, because it gives them Advantage and auto-crits. It's wrong to say it can't be captured.The big problem that you also face with this argument is that the other &quot;DPR&quot; and so on doesn't capture is the big flaw Monks have - their limited Ki pool. Which requires an hour to come back (with the bizarre extra requirement that the Monk must specifically meditate for 30 minutes during that, not sure what that's about). It's a problem that goes away at high levels, but for what people play in, it remains a problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8049623, member: 18"] They're not though. That's the thing. They're sub-par to okay at a constellation of things, and good at one thing. I mean sub-par when I say it - i.e. slightly below what you'd expect. Their damage is unimpressive. Their mobility is not really remarkable (and mobility is questionable in how good it actually is in 5E anyway, if it's not teleporting - the more I play 5E the less I see non-teleport mobility actually helping). Their defenses are okay - they don't have great AC or HP, but they have some tricks and can burn Ki to put Disadvantage on melee attackers. Yawn. You're the only one here you is even pretending people think DPR is everything. Nobody thinks that. It's a ridiculous thing people bring up to try and make out that other criticism of a class isn't valid. It's just like you bringing up two arguments that don't even really contradict each other and then trying to imply that because there's this vague sense of potential contradiction, people's arguments are random nonsense. But that's actually a totally irrational and illogical approach. It has no substance whatsoever. Stunning Strike is easily calculated into DPR anyway, because it gives them Advantage and auto-crits. It's wrong to say it can't be captured. The big problem that you also face with this argument is that the other "DPR" and so on doesn't capture is the big flaw Monks have - their limited Ki pool. Which requires an hour to come back (with the bizarre extra requirement that the Monk must specifically meditate for 30 minutes during that, not sure what that's about). It's a problem that goes away at high levels, but for what people play in, it remains a problem. [/QUOTE]

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