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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rofel Wodring" data-source="post: 8050335" data-attributes="member: 6873189">This is not an honest representation of the argument. Plenty of people with charts and graphs have in-game experience of monks sucking. It's just that we realize that without the numbers, it'll just devolve into a 'he said/she said' argument.I can give you tons of anecdotal, non-numerical evidence of monks being bad, both from the DM side and player side. For example, a lot of monks emphasize their ability to be 'single-target spellcaster wreckers' -- do you want me to tell you how effective we found that niche in Storm King's Thunder and Curse of Strahd and Tomb of Annihilation? I currently play in a West Marches server on Discord, which involves a lot of exploration into unknown terrain. The monk is terrible there, because encounters often start way further than 60' away and if the monk uses their maneuverability to get in position they'll often overextend themselves and get ganked. Meanwhile the other party members (including the STR-based martials) can stand back and plink away with arrows or javelins and get free damage before the monsters approach. For times in which that's not a good strategy (such as against hill giants) it involves moving the group together as a blob and taking advantage of any natural cover or concealment.Except, we in the 'charts and graphs' camp know that those kinds of stories are a waste of time, because people will just dismiss all of that with 'oh yeah, well, in MY campaign monks did this and this and made the DM mad by stunlocking the spellcaster BBEG'.</blockquote>

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