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<blockquote data-quote="Asisreo" data-source="post: 8050389" data-attributes="member: 7019027">We're all flawed in our logic here. There's numbers and anecdotes and predictions flying here, there, and everywhere but nobody wants to put in the time to obtain hard, statistical data. Not DPR, not AC, not charts or graphs about predictions. What we need are experiments. Not just combat experiments, either. We need to bring playtest adventures to the table and create a log on exactly everyone's effectiveness. That means a literal step-by-step analysis on what a character and DM is doing. Only then can we be conclusive about whether monks do or do not suck. The relevant variables would include but not be limited to:Damage takenDamage givenShort rests takenLong rests takenFun for playersFun for DM'sFeature usedSpells usedSpell slots consumedAnd there can be more variables. But to be frank, I'm sick of these estimations being lauded as facts when nobody has really done anything scientific to back up their claims. We've all just been pretending we really know how useful or useless any given feature is.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Asisreo, post: 8050389, member: 7019027"] We're all flawed in our logic here. There's numbers and anecdotes and predictions flying here, there, and everywhere but nobody wants to put in the time to obtain hard, statistical data. Not DPR, not AC, not charts or graphs about predictions. What we need are experiments. Not just combat experiments, either. We need to bring playtest adventures to the table and create a log on exactly everyone's effectiveness. That means a literal step-by-step analysis on what a character and DM is doing. Only then can we be conclusive about whether monks do or do not suck. The relevant variables would include but not be limited to: Damage taken Damage given Short rests taken Long rests taken Fun for players Fun for DM's Feature used Spells used Spell slots consumed And there can be more variables. But to be frank, I'm sick of these estimations being lauded as facts when nobody has really done anything scientific to back up their claims. We've all just been pretending we really know how useful or useless any given feature is. [/QUOTE]

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