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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 8050500" data-attributes="member: 2525">I don't see anyone ignoring that Stunning Strike is a team buff. The original argument is that Monk's are not as good at applying that effect (or even better effects) as some other classes. Take a wizard for example. Your monk has multiple attribute dependency more than the wizard, who is free to focus on Intelligence while the Monk needs both Dex and Wisdom. So their DCs for their stunning strike will be lower than the wizards. And they have multiple things competing for those Ki points. Flurry, Defense, most decent Subclass abilities, they're all drawing from that same very limited pool of Ki point along with your Stunning Strike. Your 6th level monk has only 6 Ki points which just won't go nearly as far as the wizards spells. Meanwhile your 6th level wizard has 3 third level spells (not counting arcane recovery), 3 second, 4 first, and 4 cantrips. A single Hypnotic Pattern is likely to take out more foes, and for a longer period of time by far, than even several stunning strikes. And the DC to make it work is also better for that wizard than the monk. And a 6th level wizard can cast that spell 4 times a day, likely with a DC 16 wisdom save versus a pack of creatures. Your stunning strike is targeting Con, which is often the best save for foes around that level, while the Hypnotic Pattern is targeting Wisdom, which is more often a weaker save for foes around that level. The Pattern lasts up to a minute, while your Stun lasts ONE ROUND. And the Pattern can be cast from 120 feet away, while your monk must actually hit the foe to apply the stun (which itself can be a problem if the foe has a good AC).So it's not that people are discounting the team buff aspect of a stunning strike - it's that they'd rather a PC like a wizard who can do it so much better.</blockquote>

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