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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8050856" data-attributes="member: 6802951">Its a pretty good comparison point: sustainable damage but still involves burning a short-rest resource; just like the monk.I think the issue is when people stop using it as a point of reference, and start regarding it as a minimum for general use. When optimising a build, I know Treantmonk uses is as a minimum, which makes sense: the point of optimising/minmaxing is to have a build that performs better than average.&nbsp;. . . And the Monk as a class is hard to optimise as a build. There are a lot of tactical decisions when in play: you can optimise your performance there. But in the actual character build: there aren't really any feats, or class splashes, or spells you can bring in from elsewhere to boost performance above the baseline like you can with most other classes. Treantmonk's interest being in optimising builds, it is quite understandable he thinks monks suck, because the class is really resistant to being optimised.Other people who don't tend to minmax character builds, but enjoy the round-by-round tactical decisions, and the scope that the monk affords them, seem to be having fun playing them, and therefore don't think that they suck.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 8050856, member: 6802951"] Its a pretty good comparison point: sustainable damage but still involves burning a short-rest resource; just like the monk. I think the issue is when people stop using it as a point of reference, and start regarding it as a minimum for general use. When optimising a build, I know Treantmonk uses is as a minimum, which makes sense: the point of optimising/minmaxing is to have a build that performs better than average. . . . And the Monk as a class is hard to optimise as a build. There are a lot of tactical decisions when in play: you can optimise your performance there. But in the actual character build: there aren't really any feats, or class splashes, or spells you can bring in from elsewhere to boost performance above the baseline like you can with most other classes. Treantmonk's interest being in optimising builds, it is quite understandable he thinks monks suck, because the class is really resistant to being optimised. Other people who don't tend to minmax character builds, but enjoy the round-by-round tactical decisions, and the scope that the monk affords them, seem to be having fun playing them, and therefore don't think that they suck. [/QUOTE]

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