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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 8050907" data-attributes="member: 6966824">I mean, there can be multiple baselines. But a fighter who doesn't outdamage a warlock using EB+AB+Hex isn't contributing much mechanically either, unless they have something else they are offering (consistently keeping attacks off their allies, say). Because, again, a warlock --- even a warlock using Hex --- isn't just a damage-based character. They have (other) invocations and (other) spells on top of that. And on average they can have Hex up and also have spell slots available for other things.If they do 99% of an enemies' health without the warlock doing anything (which is the baseline against which we should be comparing HP's contribution), then they're presumably going to do more than 100% once the warlock starts adding a bit of damage too (even just a single dagger slash). If they're doing 99% with everyone's readied action and actual turn put together (which is what you can get when mowing down hypnotized enemies one by one, because you just ready for whoever's turn is right after that enemy to give the signal), then without the readied actions, they're doing significantly less than that, and so the baseline is more enemy turns.But that aside, even if you use 6 turns denied as the measure of HP's contribution, and assume stunning strike sticks about half the time (so, about twice per fight), the warlock is still denying about 3x as many enemy turns as the monk. The gap in overall contribution closes when you take into account the damage the monk is doing on those turns that the warlock isn't doing, but the monk's damage, even including the indirect damage from granting advantage against stunned enemies, is unlikely to amount to 4 enemy turns denied per fight.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Esker, post: 8050907, member: 6966824"] I mean, there can be multiple baselines. But a fighter who doesn't outdamage a warlock using EB+AB+Hex isn't contributing much mechanically either, unless they have something else they are offering (consistently keeping attacks off their allies, say). Because, again, a warlock --- even a warlock using Hex --- isn't just a damage-based character. They have (other) invocations and (other) spells on top of that. And on average they can have Hex up and also have spell slots available for other things. If they do 99% of an enemies' health without the warlock doing anything (which is the baseline against which we should be comparing HP's contribution), then they're presumably going to do more than 100% once the warlock starts adding a bit of damage too (even just a single dagger slash). If they're doing 99% with everyone's readied action and actual turn put together (which is what you can get when mowing down hypnotized enemies one by one, because you just ready for whoever's turn is right after that enemy to give the signal), then without the readied actions, they're doing significantly less than that, and so the baseline is more enemy turns. But that aside, even if you use 6 turns denied as the measure of HP's contribution, and assume stunning strike sticks about half the time (so, about twice per fight), the warlock is still denying about 3x as many enemy turns as the monk. The gap in overall contribution closes when you take into account the damage the monk is doing on those turns that the warlock isn't doing, but the monk's damage, even including the indirect damage from granting advantage against stunned enemies, is unlikely to amount to 4 enemy turns denied per fight. [/QUOTE]

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