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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 8051038" data-attributes="member: 2525">Right, we don't forget that. But we do say, &quot;lots of stuff is immune or resistant to poison, it's clearly the worst choice if you have a choice between types of damage to do, and let's all acknowledge it's not a good choice if given a choice.&quot;Right?If most foes have a good Con score, then stun isn't as useful. That's my point. And for those who have played monks, they should be admitting yes it gets wasted against foes often enough that it's worth talking about. Because you don't get the choice in a lot of battles. And YOU'RE BANKING EVERYTHING ON THIS ONE POWER WITH ONE SAVE TYPE. We were debating if others can &quot;stun&quot; better, and the answer is yes they can. Indeed, they don't need to focus on just Con saves. They can choose other saves as well, like Wisdom saves.Why is it so controversial to talk about the reality of the game - we all know more foes have better Con scores than other things, because Con is necessary for anyone. We all know it comes up a huge amount of the time. Why are we pretending the monk doesn't have this issue when we all know they do?They DO NOT have a 50-50 shot against brutes. They have a less than 50-50 shot, which is the post you're responded to. WE CALCULATED THE NUMBERS. The odds are they will fail against foes even weaker than their level, and will very likely fail versus their level or higher. And that's THE AVERAGE. An actual brute is likely even harder than that, because those mage foes are dragging the average down.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 8051038, member: 2525"] Right, we don't forget that. But we do say, "lots of stuff is immune or resistant to poison, it's clearly the worst choice if you have a choice between types of damage to do, and let's all acknowledge it's not a good choice if given a choice." Right? If most foes have a good Con score, then stun isn't as useful. That's my point. And for those who have played monks, they should be admitting yes it gets wasted against foes often enough that it's worth talking about. Because you don't get the choice in a lot of battles. And YOU'RE BANKING EVERYTHING ON THIS ONE POWER WITH ONE SAVE TYPE. We were debating if others can "stun" better, and the answer is yes they can. Indeed, they don't need to focus on just Con saves. They can choose other saves as well, like Wisdom saves. Why is it so controversial to talk about the reality of the game - we all know more foes have better Con scores than other things, because Con is necessary for anyone. We all know it comes up a huge amount of the time. Why are we pretending the monk doesn't have this issue when we all know they do? They DO NOT have a 50-50 shot against brutes. They have a less than 50-50 shot, which is the post you're responded to. WE CALCULATED THE NUMBERS. The odds are they will fail against foes even weaker than their level, and will very likely fail versus their level or higher. And that's THE AVERAGE. An actual brute is likely even harder than that, because those mage foes are dragging the average down. [/QUOTE]

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