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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 8051787" data-attributes="member: 6966824">I agree. But both of those statements apply to the monk.I'd be perfectly happy if we dropped the word 'suck' entirely from this thread. It's clearly riling people up in ways that are orthogonal to the purpose of the original video that kicked this off. I've clarified that all I've ever meant by critiques of the class are that it has a number of flaws that cause parties to be mechanically weaker overall if they slot in a monk instead of pretty much anything else. I think what &quot;sucks&quot; is that that's the case. Like, it's a bummer for the game for someone who cares about having a lot of options for playstyles that are roughly on par with each other.The mechanics aren't damage numbers, no. And lots of other things are harder to quantify. That doesn't mean that trying to quantify them is wrong. There might be better and worse ways to do it... and that's one role that threads like this can play: pointing out shortcomings of some particular analysis. But, I mean... the game runs on an engine of dice rolls, and numbers, with imagination and roleplay layered on top. It's a pretty darn quantitative system. That doesn't mean there aren't also other ways to talk about it that aren't quantitative, but quantitative analysis is most definitely a valid pursuit in itself.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Esker, post: 8051787, member: 6966824"] I agree. But both of those statements apply to the monk. I'd be perfectly happy if we dropped the word 'suck' entirely from this thread. It's clearly riling people up in ways that are orthogonal to the purpose of the original video that kicked this off. I've clarified that all [I]I've[/I] ever meant by critiques of the class are that it has a number of flaws that cause parties to be mechanically weaker overall if they slot in a monk instead of pretty much anything else. I think what "sucks" is that that's the case. Like, it's a bummer for the game for someone who cares about having a lot of options for playstyles that are roughly on par with each other. The mechanics aren't [I]damage[/I] numbers, no. And lots of other things are [I]harder[/I] to quantify. That doesn't mean that [I]trying[/I] to quantify them is wrong. There might be better and worse [I]ways[/I] to do it... and that's one role that threads like this can play: pointing out shortcomings of some particular analysis. But, I mean... the game runs on an engine of dice rolls, and numbers, with imagination and roleplay layered on top. It's a pretty darn quantitative system. That doesn't mean there aren't also other ways to talk about it that [I]aren't[/I] quantitative, but quantitative analysis is most definitely [I]a valid pursuit in itself[/I]. [/QUOTE]

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