Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8052358" data-attributes="member: 6855114">1) No ki. Some of your examples are using Ki. The goal here is to show that the monk, without appropriate short rests is behind. That maybe why in many games, the monk is seen as inferior. But as soon as you apply the DMG guidelines of 6-8 encounters with short rests in between, the monk is not the sucker that some people are trying to make it. My guess is that in these games, the encounters are way below the 6 encounters mark, and short rests are in ... short supply?2) No flurry. Action bonus to attack is available to all  BUT GW users save for the PM. Without his flurry, the monk is behind. It doesn't take a mathematician to see it. Treantmonk proved it already. With his flurry, the monk barely keep up at low level. The fact that I said that monk have only two attacks refers to ranged attacks. I should have mentionned it again but I thought it was implied.3) Though the Monk's attacks are magical, they bring no bonuses. So a fighter with a simple magical sword will do better and hit more often than the monk of an equivalent level.4) A shield can be used to attack with a bonus action. It is only a d4, but it is there. Since it becomes an improvised weapon that comes into play after the main attack(s), the shield still counts toward the AC of the fighter. The bonus action is seperated from main attacks. In this, the monk's advantage is in that he can still add his stat (dex) modifier to his rolls. This also mean that the dueling style still applies.5) In hand to hand, without Ki, the monk will make only one more attack, that much is obvious. At any but high level this bring the monk on par with most martial classes save the fighter. With his AC, (15 before level 4, assuming 14 or 15 wisdom and 16 up to level 7 and 17 from level 8 to 11) The monk will stick out of the range of melee attackers since patient defense or dodge as an action is out of the question. The same sword and board will be at 20 AC, even the barb will be better at around if he is using a shield (barbs in my games, tend to carry a one hand weapon and a shield when out of rage capabilities. I have seen this quite often at other tables, so I think it is something that is done relatively often). In addition, the monk will possibly be in long range for using thrown weapons, thus bringing itself in the disadvantage roll to attack. At low level, it means that a short bow will be better. The typical bow user uses the longbow. 1d6 vs 1d8, the long bow user is litterally superior, this is without adjucating for the Bow fighting style if the fighter have it (or the ranger). At higher level, thrown weapons will be favor because they do more damage.As for your last assertionsUnless the monk take time to put ASI into wisdom, he will not be at 16 until level 12. In this, the GW user can wear plate, making him an 18 AC. Even the two hander can have a better AC than the Ki-less monk. Some races can be a bit higher but I stick with the non variant human.That is a chance! I sure hope the monk will have a few. But he would not throw them around for nothing. Most monk throwing weapon I have seen were darts (shuriken) that would give a lot more munitions than daggers. At 2 daggers per round, you require 10 daggers for a 5 round fight. All of them will be magical???? I doubt it.And javelins are thing. They are easy to carry and they use strength for throwing. Same goes with spears. Carrying a quiver of them is relatively easy (a friend of mine gave me a demonstration) and you can fit about 8 of these. A bit less than a dagger chest harness belt (10 for easy reach) but it is still respectable. And their short range is a bit better. But, yes, the monk would fare better at range fighting than a strength base character. That is why this tactic is often used by Ki-less monks.Save for sword and board users that will not see that much of a change when out of resources compared to the monk. The monk uses hit and run for good reasons. Without ki to fuel his Patient Defense or Step of the Wind, the monk would be a fool to go hand to hand.You must love the shadow monk. But if that monk is in bright light? We are talking in general here, not specific subclasses. Since there are a lot of factor, lets keep to the basics shall we? And if the big sword user (or whatever big weapon) is in trouble, I am absolutely certain that it is not a morron. The BW user will have a one hander and a shield to improved his survivability. I know my players do it. It is not their first choice, but they know when to adapt to the situation. So should fictionnal example of characters that are in deep sh*t... They will use the most effective manoeuvers and tactical decision. It is just that the monks' options are a bit weaker in general. Yes, there are exceptions, like the sun soul monk that will shoot rays of light for no Ki at a range of 30 feet. But again, we are speaking of baseline character. Monk will not have a wisdom of 16 until level 11 in most cases (again specific races may change this). So we work with the baseline. Just like Treantmonk did.Again, If you read my earlier post on page one. I do not agree that monks suck. They don't. They are a really great class. But monks are vulnerable to the DM's style and whims. They need their short rests even more than the warlock. For some DMs, it means a break in the narrative and it maybe why the monks are not the most popular class.</blockquote>

Verification