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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8052890" data-attributes="member: 6855114">Is that it? Play the Kensai? If a class is good only because of one subclass you proved nothing at all. And yet, when it suits you, you bring shadow monk and yaddi yadda. We go for general circumstances, not optimal or entirely detrimental ones save for the fact that you are out of resources.You keep saying that the wisdom is a sure 16.Here is the array 15,14,13,12,10, 8.Human. 16, 15, 14, 13, 11, 9. With one ASI it 18, 15, 13, 12, 9, with two ASI, Dex will be pumped to 20. So nope, at 5th level the human is at 16 AC, not 17. Only a race with +2 to dex and +1 to wisdom will be able to have that sweet 17 AC.Again, you oppose white room numbers to actual facts. How many tables are crying that monks are weak? Too many to my tastes. This is simply because the monk is so dependant on short rests that most of his power is in the DM's hands. DM's agency is so prevalent for the monk that if the DM does not follow the encounter guidelines, the monk is in peril. This is a fact. Denying it is only putting your head in the sand. If the DM follows the encounter guidelines, the monk is quite fine. I have said that again and again. You seem to think that I think monks suck, it is simply not true. I merely state that monks are too dependent on the DM following encounter guidelines. In fact, it is the only class that suffers from this.You also bring Missile deflection. It does not work with ranged cantrips and it works only once (unfortunately, I would have liked to see it as a shield of some sort where the damage negated can carry over to other missiles...)When it suits you, the monk is a front liner because its AC is good. When it does not, the monk is a skirmisher so the monk will only pick weak targets... You want the monk to be so good that you use a different lens each time for each argument. If the monk were that good, you would not need to.You also seem allergic to the weapon and board fallback tactic. Why is it so? This is a perfectly valid tactic that is used when things get rougher than usual. The scenario where the entire group is out of resources do not happen often, I'll give you that. But the scenario where the group goes with 3 or 4 encounters without rest is a pretty common one. And on this scenario, the other classes usually still have some resources but the monk, does not. The weapon and board tactic is, unfortunately, unavailable to the monk. Again, this leave the monk in a bad spot as when a monk is out of ki, it can't do its shenanigans and this makes players unhappy. When you make a character, you want to be able to use its feature most of the time. The low level monk can't do that if it does not have its short rests. Even at (relatively) high level, the problem persist. As for the monetary aspects...Most players will have money to get plate by level 4. Either by selling unwanted magical objects or by capturing one and refitting it during downtime (either paying for the refit or doing it themselves). The monk's money, usually goes into various potions, unless you have a magic store where you can buy magic items that are permanent. This is something that is not in every campaign nor every tables. And if you have a permanent magic item store, the monk will buy stuff that will help him. Depending on the price, it also means that most of his money is stashed somewhere as he need to save money to buy a protection ring, an amulet or what the player wants the most in this campaign.Whether you like it or not, there are some problems with the monk. Do they make the monk an unplayable class? Of course not! Monk is one of the most played class at my table. Especially because I strictly follow encounter guidelines and allow short rests. In fact, I have more trouble seeing sorcers and warlocks at my table. And I am not a sugar DM. I have seen more TPK in 5ed than in all the other editions combined. It is just that from what I have seen at other tables, on this forum and in surveys, the monk's short comming are not helping.</blockquote>

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