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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8052992" data-attributes="member: 6855114">I am not picking the worst. I am picking the average build that do not require optional rules. Big difference here.Unless all monks are V-humans (optional rule) or all Wood elves (Strange indeed and kinda boring if only one race is good at it) then they will have the array that I mentionned. Good, you finaly admit it. Thank you.The low hp isn't happening that often in my games. BUT the out of resources for monk is. And not only in my games.How long is a fight in your games? 3 rounds? Well, with 6 players, the fights are usually about 5 rounds minimum with an average of 7 to 8 rounds. Even in a four man party (the assumed size in 5ed) fights will tend to last from 3 to 4 rounds for average to hard fights. Spending ki in all rounds will leave the monk with no Ki for about half the second fight and if a rest is not possible (which can happen in my games too and for many reasons. though I do try to avoid it), then the monk is forced not to have Ki for an entire fight.The monk must carefully manage Ki. It is so easy for the monk to be out of Ki that it is the major reason for it to be one of the least played class. When you can use your feature only in one fight, a class is not so fun anymore. That is why pacing and following guidelines for this class is so important.Not much, but they can take cover and still be optimal while the monk will suffer by being forced to be ranged skirmishers. (yes the sunsoul monk will not be diminished. An exception is not the rule.) And the wizard, at 5th level will not be out of spells and cantrip after only one fight.This is where I totally disagree. The monk is even more in peril because the entirety of his power lies in his Ki. Fighter will still have their fighting style, wizards will still have their cantrips and so on. Not the monk. The monk will not even have his flurry of blow available. Yes AC 20 can still be hit. This is stating the obvious. But it is obvious too that an AC 16 will be hit even more often (20% more, you see? I can do math too!) Hu...? Never did I say that Deflect Missile was bad. I said it should have been a shield that protect for the amount of hp rolled and that excess hp should convey to the next missile. Focus fire will be used against any target if needed. Tactics and circumstances will be what will decide. Spread the damage? Sure, but If I know I can't hit a character easily because the AC is too high, I will try to remove his/her allies first. That means that percieved lower AC will be attacked.The cleric of my second group will tell you that he is front liner, a tank and a real good one at that. But that is not the role of the monk, that I agree.Same here. That is why many front liners use the dodge action when they can effectively block access to their squishies behind them. Tactics matters a lot at my tables. Why would a monk not be healed if it can be done? Do not take people for morrons. They are not. Neither am I.Desperate times call for desperate measures. The fall back option of other characters is way better than the fall back option of most monks. And yes they can do it mid fight. Interaction: Ready shield. Action: DODGE! This is done fairly often by any front liner and even some back bencher while they are waiting for a timely heal to come their way.As for saying the monk's damage is bad. It is bad only when out of Ki. The same goes with its AC. Quote me and the intent of the quote. Not just for proving your point. I still say that monk with their Ki are great. It is when they are out of Ki that they have a big big big problem. And their Ki can be depleted very fast. At low level this means that after the first fight, they might be out of ki for up to two more fights. This put them in their fall back options more often than any other class. The fact that their fall back option is generally worst than any other character does not help them.And lastly on that part. If the GW fighter has to fall back on the defensive, it means that the party is stretched to its limit. It is a sensible and logical action to take. The monk does not even need the party to be in dire circurmstances to have to get into a fall back plan. The monk does this constantly. This is why a lot of people do not like monk. Ki is in too short supply.If you have such a store in your campaign good for you. My stores are usually limited to expendable items such as scrolls and potions. But yes, with its money the monk will and should buy items to increase its survivability. Not doing it would be bad play.What utter BS to say. It is not what I said, it is not the conclusion you should reach. Sarcasms and exagerations do not suit you. The monk even at full HP might well be out of Ki. Even after only one fight. And when this happen, its attack, damage and AC become subpar to what the monk is supposed to be. This, again, is the main reason that a lot of players do not like the monk. When you can use your main features for only wo or three fights out of 6 -8, it is not fun. Only the monk is in this predicament. But when the monk has its goodies, boy is it fun to play.</blockquote>

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