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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8053133" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Got it2 points1) Previously you said your game was 7 to 8 rounds, now it is 10 to 12? 2) Your response has nothing to do with what I said. At all. Me: "Monk Damage is fine without ki"You: "But even if you give them a bonus to ki, they still run out very fast." Okay, fine, whatever, Monk damage is fine without Ki. Are they less powerful? Yes, of course they are. But they don't need Ki every single round of the fight.This seems to contradict what you just said, but it is really immaterial. We can't judge the class based on how a DM chooses to organize monster attacks.So, judging the class based on your limiting of the options? That isn't a problem with the class. Barbarian having +2/+1 must be even harder if you limit player options to just Mountain Dwarves with their +2/+2Also, you seem to really be focused on Ki. Completely ignoring anything else. But, at least I finally got you to admit that the monk base damage is perfectly fine. It took a long time, but we got there.I can't really give answers as to why they are hated. Or why they have the second lowest record of use, as I have seen many monks in my games. If I had to opine an opinion, it could be that monks are the only base class that has a distinctive flavor disconnect from classical DnD. The monk's more eastern, wuxia inspired aesthetic is not something that is associated with classical DnD. Their damage drops off by 11, and their late game abilities are pretty poor. Diamond Soul being one of the only exceptions (though, this discussion has gotten me to see how much more powerful Empty Body was than I thought, so that has improved, but likely that is another issue is a misunderstanding of how it works) Actually, that is another point. Some of the monk abilities are somewhat misunderstood. Like Diamond Soul no one really mentions the reroll ability. I don't think there are many of them, but a few. The Four Element monk could also be part of the issue. The Open hand isn't exciting and the Four elements is really bad, so there was really only the shadow monk subclass. Limited subclasses, limited people choosing them.This is all just off the top of my head. I doubt it is AC and damage</blockquote>

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