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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Happiest_Sadist" data-source="post: 576760" data-attributes="member: 1743">1) which other class gets special abilities going from level 1-20? monks= 19 levels of extra special feats? barbs 15, bards 2, cleric 1, druid 17, fighter 11 bonus feats, paladin 9, ranger 5, rogue 16, sorcerer 1, wizard 6How useful are all of these in a fight, and how much do they change the balance.  Slow fall?  Not, like feather fall is that hard to get.  And its about 6 of the abilities.  Toungue of sun and moon?  Not game-breaking in any concievable circumstances.  Timeless body.  Nice (but still not gamebreaking) if you run a campaign taking 20+ years of game time.  I've never played one.  Ki Strike?  Ki strike is painfully bad, even with Ki Strike, monks can't keep up with DR like a fighter with full values of equipment.Compare these to fighter feats like whirlwind attack.  Or wild shape.  Or even a familiar.2) then we go to the point of damage unarmed strike at level 12 gives 1d12, thats like the best weapon in game 1d12 = greataxe 2d6 = greatsword but it gets better at level 16 they get 1d20 dmg!!!! no weapon is that good..... that is like a greatsword +8.... no such thing.... no weapon can do that much potential damage on any given strike! 20 points? give me a breakConsider average damage.  Average damage for d20 is 10.5, average damage for a d12 is 6.5.  In otherwards its equivalent to a +2 greataxe if you always power-attack for 2 and have worse crits.  Monks don't get bounuses to hit. Then consider they can never get cool abilities like flaming, keen or vorporal.3) at 5th level monk is immune to all natural diseases and at 11th immune to ALL poison magical or otherwise! not even a paladin can do that?Ok.  this is a nice ability, but is inaplicable in 90% of the situations.  Espeically how common curing spells are by then.4) then they get evasion at 1st and improved evasion at 9th so guess what that fireball, what fireball..... rogues dont even get improved evasion!!!!Ok, finally a good useful ability.  However nothing great.5) then at 12th they can dimension door once per day.... heck which other non spell caster can do such? heck wizards cant even access that spell till 8th level and they have to memorize it! its not innate like it is to monks....Same as #4, however not insane again.6) the kicker.... at 13th they get SR equal to 10+ their level!!! heck it is a minimum of 23.... guess what the highest SR item you can buy from the DMG is Mantle of Spell Resistence and it costs 90,000 gp and it only gives you SR 21!!!! so your saying that a monk of 13th level is better than any spell resistance in the world!!!!!! and it keeps getting better since a 20th level monk would grant him/her SR 30!!!! that is a load of crap...This is a good ability.  However don't forget there are spells that give the same SR.7) then at 15th you have quivering palm which enables the monk to make a hit, and any creature that can be critically wounded has a chance it may die from one strike from a monk so potentially an anchient red wyrm can die with one strike of a monk....Once per week, if it fails a save.  That's true of many spells, like slay living for instance.  Or disintegrate.8) at 17th level a monk can communicate with any living creature... a 20th level ranger cant even do that to animals let alone ANY living creature....Ok, how is this so great?  A wizard can do this with the right low level spell.  It barely registers on the power scale.9) at 20th they get innate damage reduction 20/+1.... hmmm and become an extraplanar being..... what do other classes get at 20th level.... you guessed it you become just a 20th level fighter, cleric, paladin, rogue, wizard, etc.!!!Ok, when is this aplicable.  When you are fighting a creature with no natural attacks (anything that uses equipment will likely have something magical by then,) has no damage reduction like for instance anything with a celestial template, or a dragon.  What CR 16 or above creature has no damage reduction and uses no equipment.  Not many.</blockquote>

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