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<blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 3220865" data-attributes="member: 1879">Mmmm. I should define my terms better.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp; What Fusangite describes as type B magic I would describe as physics, although in practice it's more likely to be chemistry. If what you are doing is manipulating the properties of natural elements, using a lodestone to pick up a piece of iron say, or striking a match, then there is nothing supernatural about it. The fact that the audience (and even the practioner) may believe it to be magic due to their imperfect understanding of what is happeneing doesn't matter. If I can make a machine do the same thing, it's not magic. It's nature, nor the supernatural. Probably I'm displaying my own predjudices here.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing&nbsp; &nbsp; :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />&nbsp; Even if you are correct I still feel that the Arcane/Divine split in D&amp;D owes more to the distinction between White and Black magic then it does to Greek mystical traditions. Look at what they do: Arcane Magic blows stuff up and conjures demons you have to bargin with. Divine magic heals and summons celestial beasties that obey you out of respect. I'll conceed that these lines blur a bit in 3e, but they still exist and have since OD&amp;D. It crops up in other places too. For example the Hexblade cannot be good, even though it is an Arcane class. The familiar list is generally a bunch of unsavory creatures (Toads, Ravens, Chihuahuas.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Andor, post: 3220865, member: 1879"] Mmmm. I should define my terms better. :D What Fusangite describes as type B magic I would describe as physics, although in practice it's more likely to be chemistry. If what you are doing is manipulating the properties of natural elements, using a lodestone to pick up a piece of iron say, or striking a match, then there is nothing supernatural about it. The fact that the audience (and even the practioner) may believe it to be magic due to their imperfect understanding of what is happeneing doesn't matter. If I can make a machine do the same thing, it's not magic. It's nature, nor the supernatural. Probably I'm displaying my own predjudices here. :lol: :p Even if you are correct I still feel that the Arcane/Divine split in D&D owes more to the distinction between White and Black magic then it does to Greek mystical traditions. Look at what they do: Arcane Magic blows stuff up and conjures demons you have to bargin with. Divine magic heals and summons celestial beasties that obey you out of respect. I'll conceed that these lines blur a bit in 3e, but they still exist and have since OD&D. It crops up in other places too. For example the Hexblade cannot be good, even though it is an Arcane class. The familiar list is generally a bunch of unsavory creatures (Toads, Ravens, Chihuahuas.) [/QUOTE]

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