Monster Advancement: Did I Do This Right?

[eXodus]

well i am running a little adventure where the pcs are assaulting a subterranean wererat temple.

one of the foes they will be facing will be the mother of all direrats. not literally the mother of all direrats, but an enormous one. oh yes, a very big one.

Standard Direrat:

Small Animal
Hit Die: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
Initiative: +3 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: 15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural)
Attacks: Bite +4 melee
Damage: Bite 1d4
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +3
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +11, Hide +11, Move Silently +6
Feats: Weapon Finesse (bite)
Challenge Rating: 1/3

Filth Tongue (super dire rat)

Large Animal
Hit Die: 3d8+9
Initiative: +1 Dex
Speed: 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: 14 (+1 Dex, +3 Natural)
Attacks: Bite +6 melee
Damage: 1d8 Bite
Face/Reach: 10 ft./ by 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +11, Hide +11, Move Silently +6
Feats: Weapon Finesse (bite)
Challenge Rating: 1/3

ok. there it is. did i do this correctly? the way it was all written up in the mm was a little bit difficult to understand completely. or perhaps i am just trying to make it harder then it should be.

 

[reapersaurus]

by upping the rat from small to large, it should have:
+12 to STR
-4 to DEX
+6 to CON
+2 Natural Armor
-2 to attack and AC

By advancing it 2 Animal HD, it should get:
+1 BAB
+1 Fortitude and Will save?

The CR should increase... hmmm.... at a guess, from 1/3 to a CR of 1?

 

[eXodus]

muchas gracias senor reapersaurus!

 

[eXodus]

ok. i have a new question.

standard direrats have weapon finesse with bit attacks. this new and improved direrat has a strength of 22. could it just use it's straight strength score for resolving attacks?

 

[reapersaurus]

you're the god - you decide.

It seems to ME that the only reason why an animal develops Weapon Finesse is because it's not strong enough to attack using normal methods.
So a 22 STR rat should DEFINATELY have a different feat than Weapon Finesse.
Give it Alertness or Dodge

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, using "advancement" rule, 3HD Dire Rat should be still a small animal. See "advancement" Entry for Dire Rat in Page 57.

Stats for 3HD Dire Rat should be something like this

Filth Tongue (super dire rat)

Small Animal
Hit Die: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +3 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: 15 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural)
Attacks: Bite +6 melee
Damage: Bite 1d4
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +11, Hide +11, Move Silently +6
Feats: Weapon Finesse (bite)
Challenge Rating: 1/3*

*According to MM, CR do not change and you just multiply XP by 3. According to errated version of this rule (I think you can find that errata on this site), CR increase by 4. I think both of the rules are not so good. Usually, I prefer to re-assign CR using Monster Creation rules in Dragon #276. As a rule of sum, divide average HP by 13.5. CR 1 should be appropriate for this critter. I think you can find some guidance for this rule on Jamis Black's Creature Catalogue page, which is hosted by this site.

And a Dire Rat can have 6HD in maximum.

Really Big Dire Rat

Medium-size Animal
Hit Die: 6d8+12 (39 hp)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: 13 (+2 Dex, +1 natural)
Attacks: Bite +7 melee
Damage: Bite 1d6+2
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +13, Hide +6, Move Silently +5
Feats: Weapon Focus (bite)
Challenge Rating: IMHO, 3 should be appropriate

If you want larger rat, you have to make your own rule. IMHO it will not be unbalancing to advance the rat to 7+HD and make it large creature. For example.

Unbelievably Big Dire Rat
Large Animal
Hit Die: 9d8+36 (76 hp)
Initiative: +2 (Dex)
Speed: 40 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: 13 (-1 Size, +1 Dex, +3 natural)
Attacks: Bite +12 melee
Damage: Bite 1d8+6
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +7
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 4
Skills: Climb +17, Hide +3, Move Silently +4
Feats: Weapon Focus (bite)
Challenge Rating: IMHO, 5 should be appropriate

 

[reapersaurus]

Shin - that's a much better analysis - I was just spitballing.

I knew something didn't feel right about a 3 HD rat being Large all of a sudden...

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

The ONLY feat that an animal can have is weapon finesse.

Basically, if an animal has more DEX than STR it gets weapon finesse. Otherwise it gets squat.

You can look in the MM, you won't see an animal with any other feat.

 

[eXodus]

The ONLY feat that an animal can have is weapon finesse.

Basically, if an animal has more DEX than STR it gets weapon finesse. Otherwise it gets squat.

You can look in the MM, you won't see an animal with any other feat.

well upon looking in the mm, you are ever so right.

thanks a lot.

 

[Hypersmurf]

standard direrats have weapon finesse with bit attacks. this new and improved direrat has a strength of 22. could it just use it's straight strength score for resolving attacks?

Check the description of Weapon Finesse. You "may" use your Dex modifier. You aren't forced to.

-Hyp.