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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 5411269" data-attributes="member: 59082">The difference between MM1 monsters and post-MM3 monsters is quite extreme. Here's an example for context:MM1 Elder Blue DragonHP 960; AC 36, Fort 39, Ref 34, Will 34Gore attack +25 vs AC; 2d6 + 8, plus 2d6 lightning damage (12-32 damage range)Claw +23 vs AC; 1d8 + 8 damage (9-16).Breath Weapon 3d12 + 17 (20-53).Lightning Burst 3d6 + 7 (10-25) - burst 3.Thunderclap 1d10 + 7 (8-17).Monster Vault Elder Blue DragonHP 756; AC 34, Fort 33, Ref 30, Will 30Gore 4d12 + 16 lightning damage (20-64).Claw 4d8 + 13 damage (17-45).Breath Weapon 4d12 + 16 (20-64).Lightning Burst 3d12 + 13 (16-49) - burst 2.Thunderclap 4d12 + 16 (20-64).Some pretty extreme differences there, most especially with the claw attack - the MM1 has a measly range of 9-16, while the Monster Vault has a more satisfactory range of 17-45. We're talking about Elder dragon here, a level 20 monster. 9-16 damage for a claw attack? That's just embarrassing for the DM: "The dragon mauls you with its claw for, ah, 11 HP of damage."It is also worth noting that the Monster Vault dragon has 200 less HP and lower defenses, from 2 (AC) to 6 (Fort). There are also changes to the other powers - I only included those things the two had in common - but the newer dragon has traits and a bit more in the way of triggered actions, but the MM1 dragon has the Draconic Fury power, which gives two claw attacks and one gore at will.Now my sense is that the difference in damage output is so extreme - especially for Gore, Claw, and Thunderclap - that the new dragon is a completely different creature and the old MM1, and 2 to an extent, is virtually worthless in the next context and requiring of an update. This begs the question, will WotC update the core three? Or is the closest thing to the Essentials line? I still wouldn't be suprised to see revised version of the PHB1, DMG1, and MM1 either in late 2011 or early 2012. I'd buy them.</blockquote>

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