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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5411812" data-attributes="member: 78116">This is comparatively. You need to compare it to the MM1 version: Which does nowhere near the effective damage of its MV counterpart. Note that this is also against it's normal party, because the MV brute is more accurate (+2 accuracy in fact) over the MM one. So it's more likely to hit a target with both claws, dealing 8d6+12 damage, compared to 4d6+10.Then the beak of course which auto hits, dealing 4d8+22, compared to 4d8+5.Assuming both claws hit (which actually is HARDER for the MM Owlbear, he only has +3 vs. AC compared to the MV Owlbears +4): 4d6+10+4d8+5 = 47 average damage (not that unimpressive).MV Owlbear: 8d6+12+4d8+22 = 80 damage.Yeah, PCs will never notice that difference. One of those practically automatically drops a level 7-8 character, the other gives you a big chunk of damage but doesn't drop you. Also note that the MV owlbear "Frontloads" more damage, especially through the higher static damage of the beak. So which one after using it's dual claw attacks do you want it to action point and beak you MORE (they are elites, that action point can make a massive burst difference!)? I know none of my players are going to say "Yeah, we're not going to notice the difference in the MV owlbear". That was the point: Monsters at all tiers are not afraid to do ridiculous damage if they feel like it. Also, as a brute limited power it can do up to 50% (or even 75%, depending on the author) damage. The silt runner is just taking the extremity of that percentage. I actually use them against higher level PCs and they can be obscenely nasty. I never use them against low level PCs though (my PCs see them around level 4 or even 5!).This isn't the point. Abduls point is that "Heroic MM3+ monsters are pretty similar to those in the MM". This is plainly and utterly false. My players have been able to almost routinely pick what monster comes out of what book for some time now. There are two ways they can tell: Powers and damage. Damage is the most obvious but powers also make a huge difference as well.</blockquote>

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