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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5411930" data-attributes="member: 82106">I never said or implied (or meant to imply certainly) that MM3 monsters don't generally outdo say MM1 monsters, that was I think pretty much the whole point with MM3/MV. My point was that it is not universally true that there is a huge difference and that the example was an extreme one. Your average low level humanoid in MM3 or MV is doing some extra damage, but nothing much beyond that. Other differences are largely either more flavorful mechanics, anti-grind measures, or just more tactically interesting options. As for cherry picking, I wasn't accusing you of doing that. I was purely pointing out the above. It is worth DMs knowing that, particularly for low level play, using MM1 monsters works pretty well most of the time. Using the MM3/MV equivalents may still work better, but at those levels it is rarely going to make a really huge difference in play. I mean take the Owlbear example. The old Owlbear was a pretty good monster. Simple but dishing out enough damage to be a scary encounter. Upping its damage is nice and getting rid of the stun is nice too, but the old one DOES work pretty well, I can attest to that, having used it a decent amount. The level 14 MM1 Winterclaw Owlbear OTOH is poop. It does if anything probably less damage than the level 8 version. I think that kind of sums up where I'm at, heroic tier MM1 monsters are mostly pretty decent. They usually do get better with the new numbers, but honestly I'm not sure some of the MV versions at those levels haven't gone a bit to the opposite extreme.</blockquote>

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