Monster Design: Damage Expressions and Multiple Attacks

[Boarstorm]

Heya, Forumites.

I'm in the process of tweaking a monster I designed and looking at the guidelines for damage output on page 185 of the DMG, this particular critter should deal about 2d8+4 (4-6th level, normal damage expressions: High).

That's swell. So... about 13 pts average, different die and bonuses as appropriate for the critter, but here's the rub: I've designed this particular creature to be a "dual wielder" of sorts. To that end, I've decided to use a familiar set of powers from the MM, namely

Hookblade (Standard; at-will) * Weapon
+9 vs. AC, XdX+X damage

Double Attack (Standard; at-will) * Weapon
Critter X may make 2 melee basic attacks.

Obviously the intent is that he will usually use the double attack on his turn, and the basic melee attack when appropriate (OAs, charging, etc).

So should I use the 2d8+4 damage expression as his basic attack, and potentially double it up each round, or consider that the Double Attack is his "real" at-will, and have each basic melee attack do something along the lines of 1d8+2?

Thoughts?

 

[keterys]

Latter, I'd think. Damage output should assume its normal attack (dual wield)

 

[Boarstorm]

I tend to agree. The only reason I hesitate was that I was planning on adding another skirmisher-esque ability (a la Spring Attack) to round out the fellow, and had planned to use the basic attack for that as well. I suppose it'd work out if I simply allowed him to make the double attack with the spring attack instead of just the single swing.

Otherwise, I think I've forced him back into 3.X tropes of move-and-scratch or stand-still-and-dish-out-the-hurt, which is definately not what I wanted.

 

[Roger]

Let's check out some extant monsters with double attacking powers in your general sort of level range:

Bar-Lgura: Level 8 Brute, 1d8+6 damage, or 2d8+6 if bloodied.

Young Black Dragon: Level 4 Solo Lurker, 1d4+3 damage.

Young Green Dragon: Level 5 Solo Skirmisher, 1d6+5 damage.

Young White Dragon: Level 3 Solo Brute, 1d8+4 damage; if both hit, another attack for 1d8+4+1d6.

Rage Drake: Level 5 Brute, 1d6+4 when charging.

Gnoll Claw Fighter: Level 6 Skirmisher, 1d6+4 (or +6 if bloodied) when charging.

Griffon: Level 7 Brute, 2d6+7 when charging.


Looks like you're probably going to want something in the 1d8 range rather than the 2d8 range.

If you want to post more about your underlying concept and how you want the monster to play on the mat, I'm sure some people here will chime in with different ideas about how to accomplish it.


Cheers,
Roger

 

[Boarstorm]

If you want to post more about your underlying concept and how you want the monster to play on the mat, I'm sure some people here will chime in with different ideas about how to accomplish it.

Happily!

I'm in the process of converting Red Hand of Doom to 4E (with a targeted starting level of 4, so not a straight conversion, I'll probably post what I've done in the appropriate thread when I have more than 4 monsters to show for my work -- not all of us are as prolific as Keterys there. Thanks, by the way). This particular creature is (no spoilers necessary, it's just a rank-and-file) a Hobgoblin Bladebearer.

In 3.5, this particular hobgoblin wields two +1 short swords and wears leather armor. Almost all his feats are two-weapon feats. That, combined with his light armor, screamed skirmisher to me, so that's where I started.

I'm picturing a very TWF-rangerish feel, but I wanted to emphasize his movement capabilities and cribbed something from the Spiretop Drake. Anyway, what I've pieced together so far looks something like this.

[sblock]
Hobgoblin Bladebearer Medium Natural Humanoid
Level 4 skirmisher XP:175

Initiative: +7 Senses Perception +3; low-light vision
HP: 55; Bloodied 27
AC 18; Fortitude 16, Reflex 16, Will 14
Speed 6

Hookblade (standard; at-will) * Weapon
+9 vs. AC; 1d8+3 damage.

Double Attack (standard; at-will) * Weapon
The Hobgoblin Bladebearer may make two basic melee attacks.

Running Attack (standard; at-will) * Weapon
The Hobgoblin Bladebearer moves up to 6 squares and makes a Double Attack at any point during that movement. The Hobgoblin Bladebearer doesn't provoke opportunity attacks when moving away from the target of the attack.

Hobgoblin Resilience (immediate reaction, when the hobgoblin
bladebearer suffers an effect that a save can end; encounter)
The hobgoblin bladebearer rolls a saving throw against the effect.

Alignment: Evil Languages: Common, Goblin
Str 16 (+5) Dex 16 (+5) Wis 12 (+3)
Con 15 (+4) Int 10 (+2) Cha 8 (+1)
[/sblock]

Two notes:
1) The hookblade is ... well, something of a combination sickle and short sword. It's silly in real life, but emblematic of hobgoblins in my personal world. Short swords work just as well.

2) I don't like Running Attack! It's based on the Spiretop Drake's Fly-by Attack (as alluded to, above), but it just doesn't work as well for something that doesn't fly because it essentially grants him a double move AND a double attack -- and while I can picture that if the critter has wings, it just doesn't feel correct for a ground-pounder. In a perfect world, I'd make it cost a standard action and a move action, but I don't think there's any precedent for that. I thought I saw at one point a power that required the monster not to have moved that turned to activate, but I can't find it at the moment, so I can't see if it would fit as well as I hope it would.

Edit: Left off the Hobbo's resilience power.

 

[keterys]

I think there are a couple monsters (like Irontooth) that have a 'has not moved' caveat... some other ideas include doing it as a charge attack with the 2 blades at the end and having the move value be quite low, like 2 or 3.

 

[Boarstorm]

Irontooth! I knew I'd seen it somewhere. Let's see here...

"(standard; when Irontooth doesn't move on his turn; at will)"

I think that'd work just fine. Anyone notice other errors/omissions? Or just have advice in general?

 

[Dalamar]

I'm not sure how to word it effectively, but I might opt for making two basic attacks with Running Attack so that it can move between the attacks.