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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mentat55" data-source="post: 4094254" data-attributes="member: 14840">I think I'd make most dinosaurs in the level 6-12 range , maybe elite for large herbivores, solo for large predators, regular for pack predators (e.g., velociraptor).  The big dinos would probably be brutes, so they would have a lot of hit points (befitting their size), but with low Int and Dex, their Reflex defense would only be around 10 + 1/2 level (+3 to +6) = 13 to 16.  The velociraptors (or Utahraptor, or deinonychus, or what you will) would probably be skirmishers, or maybe lurkers in some cases. I guess what I am trying to say in that 1st paragraph is that we have to reevaluate how we build monsters.  Consider that a T-Rex, while it has 18 HD in 3.5E, is only a CR 8 monster.  HD in 3.5E was relatively uncoupled from CR - obviously more HD usually meant more CR, but we have 20 HD zombies that are CR 6, while 20 HD balors are CR 20.  Special abilities, creature type and the associated saves and BAB, ability scores, AC, etc., really made CR in 3.x.  But they were not integrated with HD, and so you got wonky results.  Now, all of those values -- AC, defenses, attack bonus, hit points -- are tied to monster level and role. So the 18 HD T-Rex in 3.5E suddenly becomes a level 8 solo brute in 4E.  It has tons of hit points, but its attack bonus is not ridiculous for its CR (+20 and swallow whole against lvl 8  PCs, c'mon) and its defenses are appropriate for fighting level 8 PCs (rather than the current high Fort and Ref vs. CR 8).  There are probably weird and wonky situations in this system as well, but from the looks of it, because level and role dictate so many things, it is easier to arrive at the solution you want.</blockquote>

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