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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8913730" data-attributes="member: 57383">And finally, some miscellaneous comments that I wrote into my notes so I might as well share them.This'll be an even more cumbersomely long post than the previous one, so let me know if you'd rather I break it up into individual posts for each quote I'm commenting on.Random MusingsWhile the MC8 Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes Appendix (1991) Vrock has "DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-4/1-4/1-8/1-8/1-6 +7 (strength bonus)" the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix (1994) has "1d4/1d4/1d8/1d8/1d6 or by weapon +7 (Strength bonus)" so its Strength 19's damage bonus only applies to weapons not natural attacks (i.e. claws, talons & beak) unlike, say, the Colchiln (Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, 1984) or Mezzodaemon (Fiend Folio, 1981; Mezzoloth in 2E), which added a Strength-based damage bonus to their claw attacks since their original 1E appearance.At least I'm pretty sure that's the intention, although the wording isn't 100% clear, and I suspect that was always the case and the MC8 version was meant to only apply its damage bonus to weapons, but they failed to include that in the text.There's a threefold difference in damage between 1d4+7/1d4+7/1d8+7/1d8+7/1d6+7 and 1d4/1d4/1d8/1d8/1d6, since those five sets of +7 add up to +35, which is quite a lot!While 2E adds weapon use to vrocks, unlike most fiends that can use either weapons or natural attacks it does not give them separate No. of Attacks. As written "the vrocks can attack a devastating five times in a single melee round" would apply to, say, a battleaxe or two-handed sword if the vrock wielded one. That doesn't seem right though, as even a high level fighter only gets two attacks a round (0r 2½ if they have the Weapon Specialization optional rule and 5/2 attacks per round). Contrariwise, if a Vrock could only make a single attack with a weapon, then even with a two-handed sword (1d10+7; average 12½) it'd do less damage than its claw/claw/talon/talon/beak routine (1d4/1d4/1d8/1d8/1d6; 17½).Should I ever run a weapon-wielding Vrock in AD&D, I'd probably give it 3/2 attacks and maybe let them use their Strength 19's +3 to hit with the weapon. That'd seem fairly balanced compared to its natural attacks (a battleaxe would be 1½×1d8+7; average 17¼. A +2 longsword would be 1½×1d8+9; average 20¼).I was a trifle disappointed to pull out that Dungeon and discover the Spawn is just an advanced elite gargoyle with the half-fiend template, two extra claw attacks and some good equipment. Apart from its description (vulture head & wings) and the back story mentioning a "vrock named Ehiuzrek" it could be any other half-fiend. It doesn't have any vrock traits like spores, a screech, or having talon attacks as well as claw attacks.Well you didn't say the vrock had to be dead to be "harvested" so maybe a vrock plucker takes one feather and then released the demon so they can pluck another feather once it moults? If vrock-plucking requires fatality, and the one gold per feather holds for 4E, does that mean the Draconomicon rug cost the lives of fifty thousand vrocks?Regardless, a single  gold piece seems awful cheap for an only-one-per-demon body part.As for why only one feather, I can only guess that only the first feather harvested is imbued with whatever mystical qualities makes it useful, although that begs the question of how do you distinguish a usable feather from an unusable one? All the vrock's other feathers would presumably be indistinguishable, so wouldn't that encourage attempts to sell "dud" feathers that didn't get to be first? Or even feathers from a non-vrock that look similar, such as a giant vulture.It's hardly unusual to hate your co-workers!The Immortals set calls this ability Speak With Anything but that's nowhere near true. They forgot to include unliving beings who aren't undead, so one wonders what a Screaming Demon does if it needs to talk with a Magen or the like. It can't use speak with monsters power to converse with a construct because it's a 24 power point ability and its PP limit is 8. Ordinary corpses are out too, as speak with the dead is PP 10. It can't use speak with plants (PP 12) either, but that's not a problem as living plants are covered by the fiendish speak with anything.All these ability scores are 1d6+14, so a Screaming Demon is significantly more intelligent (Int 15 to 20, average 17½) than a Vrock (average Int 9 in 1E, 13 in 2E) as well as being tougher (20 HD, or 10 HD in Wrath versus 8 HD for a Type I).That does make their average Strength a bit lower the Str 19 of a 2E Vrock, but I suspect their higher Hit Dice and all those Immortal Set abilities makes Screamers more powerful than Vrocks.Yes, that would make for a rather big egg.Pshaw. If this work was really "complete" it'd include the lyrics. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" />Pulls out copy of Dragon #216…Shudder.…never mind!Was sure Ral Partha did a licensed Vrock miniature, but after spending way too long on the internet it appears my memory was playing me tricks again. There are some True Tanar'ri in their Planescape series, but no Vrock.Nor did they make an unofficial "homage" like the Reaper Miniatures' Vulture Demons "<a href="https://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Vrock" target="_blank">Vrock</a>" as far as I could discover, and the Gorgonian Brass Bull and Lumbering Hulk shows Ral Partha were not above such imitations.</blockquote>

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