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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6905852" data-attributes="member: 12731">Just want to add something I might have missed saying: I definitely don't want to remove the idea that demon lords and dragon gods should be able to output some seriously hard saves. But I definitely feel that any reasonable build should still succeed, say, on rolling 19-20, on those saves. Sure, if you have a 8 (or even lower, for those of you rolling stats) it's acceptable that this impacts that chance of success, so that from the baseline minimum of a 10% chance, having an 8 (-1 modifier) you have only a 5% chance, and having an 6 (-2 modifier) you can't succeed.Something about the basic fundamental design is off when 1) a regular character can easily have three abilities with scores around 10. That is, such a character is not a freak, not an exception, but clearly a regular character with scores the designers must have anticipated.2) that character will have essentially no chance whatsoever of making those three out of six saves, from an epic (CR 21+) monster, regardless of level.I would have accepted that a mid-level character would have this experience. I would have accepted that a high-level character had one such weakness out of six abilities.I do not accept as good game design that an epic monster can essentially throw out effects at random, and there is a full 50% risk of the player being asked to make a save he cannot succeed at, even if his character is an epic level twenty badass himself.</blockquote>

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