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<blockquote data-quote="VariSami" data-source="post: 6088926" data-attributes="member: 6698543"><p>Hi.</p><p></p><p>Ok, here's an interesting phenomenon I have noticed: many if not most monsters are at their best against non-casters who are already at the bottom of the pecking order among characters. Yes, there are a great many monsters with Spell Resistance, sure. Even immunity to spells, as in the case of Golems. But Spell Resistance is relatively easily breached (it doesn't even affect all spells to begin with).</p><p></p><p>Let's go with a fresh example. In the latest dungeon we visited in a Tier 3-4 campaign which doesn't allow for full casters of any kind (We're also limited to the core books, PHBII, MIC, Complete Adventurer/Arcane/Warrior/Divine and Miniatures Handbook) the first thing that came across out party of a Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Spellthief and Marshal/Knight/Fighter (levels 5-6) was a Black Pudding. Oh, goody! Luckily my Marshal/Knight/Fighter immediately recognized it with Knowledge (dungeoneering) and assessed it as a threat with Sense Motive. So we escaped with our equipment intact and could later return (with an NPC Adept and my characters' equipment protected with Blueshine and Everbright qualities) and kill it - by slicing it up until it couldn't divide any longer and doing a few points of damage besides that(quess what the DM forgot to mention regarding the earlier Knowledge check?). The next thing we came across, like 50ft. into the dungeon... a pack of 3 Destrachans. They were behind a door though, and my aforementioned character happened to hear and identify them through the door. That way we could fight our way through a tribe of Derroes before the Destrachans rushed in through the walls.</p><p></p><p>Do you see a pattern? Even if your equipment is golden against acid and rust (Everbright/Blueshine), it can still be shattered. And what do non-casters do without their equipment? Nada but run. And that is only the beginning: regeneration, DR, damage immunities and close-quarter save-or-die attacks are legion. There are so many more ways to gimp non-casters than casters that every encounter we come across seems to be tailor-made to make our life miserable. (Then again, I wouldn't bet against that being intentional with a DM that used a group of 8 advanced Meenlocks with 6 extra HD the session before: more than the entry recommends; stronger than the entry would officially allow and all about save-or-die miserably attacks.)</p><p></p><p>To contribute something besides pathetic whining, here are a few thoughts and questions:</p><p></p><p>1. I actually liked how our DM resolved the encounter with the Black Pudding. He went with elementary logic and had it divide along the lines of 2xLarge/2xLarge/2xMedium instead of causing it to sprout identical, huge copies with each slash or stab. I believe this should be done more often with the monsters: logic before rules. And this comes from a diehard opponent of modifications to the rules (then again, I'd probably never use that accursed entry in the first place). Also, Meenlocks: why the hell do you only gain immunity to individual Meenlocks' horrifying screams each tie you save against them? You'll be trying to save against the attack 3-6 times per encounter which makes even those with good will saves bound to fail (not to mention that they also attack your Fort with paralyzing attacks in any case). There is no logic in this unless each Meenlock is a budding flower of unique individuality (hint: they're not). In my humble opinion, this applies to most cases of "you are immune to that particular X's Y for 24 hours".</p><p></p><p>2. In case of multiple opponents with identical abilities, probably having only one of them use it at the beginning of the encounter should suffice (from their point of view). Let's think about Destrachans: you could either have multiples shattering items to most definitely strip the party of everything. Or, you could identify with the Destrachans: even if their entry states that they begin combat with a shattering spree, one should suffice in most cases and the rest can focus on killing. Or Meenlocks: even if they can each scream each turn (and they did in our encounter with them), would they really? Maybe they would but 3+ Will saves against going comatose each time they close in on you is madness (see previous entry about immunity to effects).</p><p></p><p>3. I am in the opinion that low-magic campaigns are relatively common due to the brokenness of many casters. As such, there is bound to be a wealth of data regarding them available in here. What are your experiences? Which monster abilities should be avoided in such campaigns since they have been designed to be used against a party with at least 2 full casters (arcane and divine)?</p><p></p><p>Wow, this was an incoherent rant.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VariSami, post: 6088926, member: 6698543"] Hi. Ok, here's an interesting phenomenon I have noticed: many if not most monsters are at their best against non-casters who are already at the bottom of the pecking order among characters. Yes, there are a great many monsters with Spell Resistance, sure. Even immunity to spells, as in the case of Golems. But Spell Resistance is relatively easily breached (it doesn't even affect all spells to begin with). Let's go with a fresh example. In the latest dungeon we visited in a Tier 3-4 campaign which doesn't allow for full casters of any kind (We're also limited to the core books, PHBII, MIC, Complete Adventurer/Arcane/Warrior/Divine and Miniatures Handbook) the first thing that came across out party of a Dragon Shaman, Marshal, Spellthief and Marshal/Knight/Fighter (levels 5-6) was a Black Pudding. Oh, goody! Luckily my Marshal/Knight/Fighter immediately recognized it with Knowledge (dungeoneering) and assessed it as a threat with Sense Motive. So we escaped with our equipment intact and could later return (with an NPC Adept and my characters' equipment protected with Blueshine and Everbright qualities) and kill it - by slicing it up until it couldn't divide any longer and doing a few points of damage besides that(quess what the DM forgot to mention regarding the earlier Knowledge check?). The next thing we came across, like 50ft. into the dungeon... a pack of 3 Destrachans. They were behind a door though, and my aforementioned character happened to hear and identify them through the door. That way we could fight our way through a tribe of Derroes before the Destrachans rushed in through the walls. Do you see a pattern? Even if your equipment is golden against acid and rust (Everbright/Blueshine), it can still be shattered. And what do non-casters do without their equipment? Nada but run. And that is only the beginning: regeneration, DR, damage immunities and close-quarter save-or-die attacks are legion. There are so many more ways to gimp non-casters than casters that every encounter we come across seems to be tailor-made to make our life miserable. (Then again, I wouldn't bet against that being intentional with a DM that used a group of 8 advanced Meenlocks with 6 extra HD the session before: more than the entry recommends; stronger than the entry would officially allow and all about save-or-die miserably attacks.) To contribute something besides pathetic whining, here are a few thoughts and questions: 1. I actually liked how our DM resolved the encounter with the Black Pudding. He went with elementary logic and had it divide along the lines of 2xLarge/2xLarge/2xMedium instead of causing it to sprout identical, huge copies with each slash or stab. I believe this should be done more often with the monsters: logic before rules. And this comes from a diehard opponent of modifications to the rules (then again, I'd probably never use that accursed entry in the first place). Also, Meenlocks: why the hell do you only gain immunity to individual Meenlocks' horrifying screams each tie you save against them? You'll be trying to save against the attack 3-6 times per encounter which makes even those with good will saves bound to fail (not to mention that they also attack your Fort with paralyzing attacks in any case). There is no logic in this unless each Meenlock is a budding flower of unique individuality (hint: they're not). In my humble opinion, this applies to most cases of "you are immune to that particular X's Y for 24 hours". 2. In case of multiple opponents with identical abilities, probably having only one of them use it at the beginning of the encounter should suffice (from their point of view). Let's think about Destrachans: you could either have multiples shattering items to most definitely strip the party of everything. Or, you could identify with the Destrachans: even if their entry states that they begin combat with a shattering spree, one should suffice in most cases and the rest can focus on killing. Or Meenlocks: even if they can each scream each turn (and they did in our encounter with them), would they really? Maybe they would but 3+ Will saves against going comatose each time they close in on you is madness (see previous entry about immunity to effects). 3. I am in the opinion that low-magic campaigns are relatively common due to the brokenness of many casters. As such, there is bound to be a wealth of data regarding them available in here. What are your experiences? Which monster abilities should be avoided in such campaigns since they have been designed to be used against a party with at least 2 full casters (arcane and divine)? Wow, this was an incoherent rant. [/QUOTE]
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