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Message: <blockquote data-quote="surfarcher" data-source="post: 6418668" data-attributes="member: 84774">Monster Math: CR1 vs CR½ - Quantifying the differencesSo for the next article in my analysis series I am working on a CR evaluation method. It's a pretty flexible model and aims to produce results in the neighbourhood of +/-5% of traditional deeper monster analysis and evaluation methods.  Why not just use DPR? Well that method is fairly complicated and most DMs simply won't be able to use it. And frankly I believe it's not entirely necessary in 5e. Now, I'm in the right ballpark for accuracy with the CR1+ monsters in my sample set and getting excellent results. There does seem to be some overlap between adjacent CRs in 5e, but it's something the model copes with without any problems... at least from CR1 onwards. But with monsters of CR1 and below the overlap becomes more pronounced. The monsters at the lower end of CR1 overlap those at the top end of CR½ more than I would like. And then there's similar overlap between CR½ and ¼ and so forth down to CR0. Some of the CR1 monsters involved...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Animated Armor (CR1, 33hp, AC18, +4 to-hit, 11 NAD). (No longer overlaps CR½) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Dragonclaw (CR1, 16hp, AC14, +5 to-hit, 16.5 NAD). (No longer overlaps CR½) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Fire Snake (CR1, 22hp, AC14, +3 to-hit, 21 NAD). (No longer overlaps CR½) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Imp (CR1, 10hp, AC13, +5 to-hit, 13.38 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Lion (CR1, 26hp, AC12, +5 to-hit, 10.75 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Quasit (CR1, 7hp, AC13, +4 to-hit, 13.13 NAD). </li> </ul> And some of the CR½ monsters...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Ape (CR½, 19hp, AC12, +5 to-hit, 13 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Black Bear (CR½, 19hp, AC11, +3 to-hit, 12.5 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Gray Ooze (CR½, 22hp, AC8, +3 to-hit, 11.5 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Lizardfolk (CR½, 22hp, AC15, +4 to-hit, 11.0 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Satyr (CR½, 31hp, AC14, +5 to-hit, 6.5 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scout (CR½, 16hp, AC13, +4 to-hit, 11 NAD). (Added) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Thug (CR½, 32hp, AC11, +4 to-hit, 11 NAD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Worg (CR½, 26hp, AC13, +5 to-hit, 10 NAD). </li> </ul> The above are, of course, for very high-level comparison only. Proper evaluation requires consideration of the rest of the monster including other defences, how the monster is run, etc, etc. Notes...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> NAD is "Notional Average Damage". A monster with Multiattack that uses two 5 average damage melee attacks would have a 10 here. A monster that normally attacks with an average 5 damage attack but has a recharge 5-6 attack that does an average 13 damage has a NAD of 7.666. (5 * (2/3)) + (13 * (1/3)) = 3.333 + 4.333 = 7.666 </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> While NAD is used by the evaluation process it's only a variable in that process. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> The other stats listed are also variables in the assessment process. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> There are other variables and constants in the assessment process not listed here. </li> </ul>I have no doubt that at least some of the overlap is due to my own mis-evaluation. For example some feel strongly that the Lion gets to use Pounce more than 50% and they may well be right.So I am opening the door to community comment on how you quantitatively (or at least compellingly) differentiate creatures as being in CR1, rather than in CR½. And vice versa.While opinions are fine things and folks are entitled to them they really aren't going to be of much use in this discussion, unless you can clearly support them. Subjective value statements like "the Thug is not CR1 because it clearly isn't a threat to a CR1 party" are no help. Compelling and/or measurable reasons are most useful. "2 Thugs were no challenge to my PCs" isn't measurable but "The Thug's damage is lower than indicated because of X" is. "The Lion is more of a threat than the Thug" isn't specific or compelling, but "The Lion uses Pounce on average 80% or the time, not 50% the time, because of X" is.So if we could try to focus on measurable and/or compelling differentiators that would be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance for all honest discussion and contributions!Edit record: All edits noted in green italic above...29-Oct-14: Corrected NAD for almost all monsters. Several CR1 monsters no longer overlap with CR½. Added the Scout.</blockquote>

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