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<blockquote data-quote="SlyFlourish" data-source="post: 4921293" data-attributes="member: 54840">So my players very much enjoy optimizing their characters, not to an obscene level but they love getting the most from their gear and from eachother with some pretty powerful character combinations.The problem is, as a DM, I want to have that same amount of fun. In particular, while I wouldn't go out of my way to wipe out the party, I'd like to know that I COULD if I WANTED to. Right now, at level 18, I don't feel like that. I put them through one of the roughest battles I could imagine: Bodak Death Knights + Slaughter Wights + Demonic Flameskulls. That worked pretty well but they still managed to defeat it without much lost other than a great pile of healing surges.So if players get their character optimization boards, how can we start a monster optimization board with combinations of monsters that are particularly effective.I'll even start with one: Bodaks and wights. Bodaks get a gaze attack that drops PCs to 0 hitpoints but only when they're weakened. Wights weaken on their basic melee attacks. Have the Bodak ready an action to gaze at the first weakened opponent and you have a 1-2 punch that will knock a defender on his arse. It's a cheap shot but it gets their attention.What other non-griefy non-grindy monster combinations have you found that can be truely dangerous to powerful optimized PCs?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SlyFlourish, post: 4921293, member: 54840"] So my players very much enjoy optimizing their characters, not to an obscene level but they love getting the most from their gear and from eachother with some pretty powerful character combinations. The problem is, as a DM, I want to have that same amount of fun. In particular, while I wouldn't go out of my way to wipe out the party, I'd like to know that I COULD if I WANTED to. Right now, at level 18, I don't feel like that. I put them through one of the roughest battles I could imagine: Bodak Death Knights + Slaughter Wights + Demonic Flameskulls. That worked pretty well but they still managed to defeat it without much lost other than a great pile of healing surges. So if players get their character optimization boards, how can we start a monster optimization board with combinations of monsters that are particularly effective. I'll even start with one: Bodaks and wights. Bodaks get a gaze attack that drops PCs to 0 hitpoints but only when they're weakened. Wights weaken on their basic melee attacks. Have the Bodak ready an action to gaze at the first weakened opponent and you have a 1-2 punch that will knock a defender on his arse. It's a cheap shot but it gets their attention. What other non-griefy non-grindy monster combinations have you found that can be truely dangerous to powerful optimized PCs? [/QUOTE]

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