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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8394561" data-attributes="member: 83242">That is mostly incorrect IMO. First, the DMG lists a bunch of things that affect a creature's CR beyond AC, HP, attack bonus, &amp; DPR.&nbsp; These include, but are not limited too:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">saving throws</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">resistances and immunities (including Legendary Resistance)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">special traits (aggressive, ambusher, avoidance, etc. - 2 pages of them in the DMG).</li>
</ul>Regarding spells, anything that causes damage is straightforward as it is part of the DPR calculation.&nbsp; Similarly, the DMG also provides an expected damage per spell level table.&nbsp; Though it is never explicitly stated, I sometimes use this table to convert non-damage combat spells to a damage number for calculating DPR and attack CR.&nbsp; I have not checked to see if this how the monsters in the MM do it, but it seems reasonable.&nbsp; Regardless, the MM clearly modifies CRs based on charms and similar effects.&nbsp; Two examples:<ol>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">The basilisk CR is bumped by at least 1 for its petrifying gaze.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ol">The Succubus should be a CR 2 monster per the DMG; however, it has a charm action and it is a CR 4.&nbsp; The only explanation for this jump is the charm and/or hit point max. reduction. Now I will not the DMG doesn't provide a value for Charm, and if I treated like the spell casting it doesn't really bump up the CR much. So the only explanation is the hit point max drain, which at this CR is pretty high (32 HP).</li>
</ol>So while every feature is not clarified in the DMG, there are a lot and I would argue the designers of the MM did take into account additional special traits.&nbsp; IMO, they are often to conservative and push up a monsters CR to much.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 8394561, member: 83242"] That is mostly incorrect IMO. First, the DMG lists a bunch of things that affect a creature's CR beyond AC, HP, attack bonus, & DPR. These include, but are not limited too: [LIST] [*]saving throws [*]resistances and immunities (including Legendary Resistance) [*]special traits (aggressive, ambusher, avoidance, etc. - 2 pages of them in the DMG). [/LIST] Regarding spells, anything that causes damage is straightforward as it is part of the DPR calculation. Similarly, the DMG also provides an expected damage per spell level table. Though it is never explicitly stated, I sometimes use this table to convert non-damage combat spells to a damage number for calculating DPR and attack CR. I have not checked to see if this how the monsters in the MM do it, but it seems reasonable. Regardless, the MM clearly modifies CRs based on charms and similar effects. Two examples: [LIST=1] [*]The basilisk CR is bumped by at least 1 for its petrifying gaze. [*]The Succubus should be a CR 2 monster per the DMG; however, it has a charm action and it is a CR 4. The only explanation for this jump is the charm and/or hit point max. reduction. Now I will not the DMG doesn't provide a value for Charm, and if I treated like the spell casting it doesn't really bump up the CR much. So the only explanation is the hit point max drain, which at this CR is pretty high (32 HP). [/LIST] So while every feature is not clarified in the DMG, there are a lot and I would argue the designers of the MM did take into account additional special traits. IMO, they are often to conservative and push up a monsters CR to much. [/QUOTE]

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