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<blockquote data-quote="paradox42" data-source="post: 3434124" data-attributes="member: 29746">Trouble is, it is in the rules: <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#featAcquisitionandAbilityScoreIncreases" target="_blank">here's a link</a> to prove it. This is a link to the online version of the d20 SRD, the base rules of the system; the section under &quot;Ability Score Arrays&quot; and subsection titled &quot;Ability Score Improvement&quot; clearly states:Now, with this you could potentially make an argument that if you do something like add a Macrobe template then the ability score adjustments for increased hit dice shouldn't happen, since presumably the monster always was a Macrobe and thus its new HD are its inborn racial number. A key point, though, is what you do with the clause that says &quot;these adjustments are already included in their basic ability scores.&quot; That strongly implies that it's supposed to work for base HD as well, at least in some manner.Anyway, if you do go with the no-ability-increases-for-Macrobes method, then properly speaking you need to remove the notion of ability score increases by HD from other areas of the rules- like Immortals gaining ability increases for their HD which you incorporated into your &quot;average score&quot; numbers in Chapter 2 of Ascension. Since most beings of (for example) Sidereal class have always been that way, since the cosmos was created from the detritus of the Demiurge, their HD are racial HD- and their ability scores will accordingly get significantly lower. If you want to keep their numbers high, then those numbers will have to come from somewhere else.Which is more satisfying to you?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="paradox42, post: 3434124, member: 29746"] Trouble is, it [b]is[/b] in the rules: [URL=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#featAcquisitionandAbilityScoreIncreases]here's a link[/URL] to prove it. This is a link to the online version of the d20 SRD, the base rules of the system; the section under "Ability Score Arrays" and subsection titled "Ability Score Improvement" clearly states: Now, with this you could potentially make an argument that if you do something like add a Macrobe template then the ability score adjustments for increased hit dice shouldn't happen, since presumably the monster always was a Macrobe and thus its new HD are its inborn racial number. A key point, though, is what you do with the clause that says "these adjustments [b]are already included[/b] in their basic ability scores." That strongly implies that it's supposed to work for base HD as well, at least in some manner. Anyway, if you do go with the no-ability-increases-for-Macrobes method, then properly speaking you need to remove the notion of ability score increases by HD from other areas of the rules- like Immortals gaining ability increases for their HD which you incorporated into your "average score" numbers in Chapter 2 of Ascension. Since most beings of (for example) Sidereal class have always been that way, since the cosmos was created from the detritus of the Demiurge, their HD are racial HD- and their ability scores will accordingly get significantly lower. If you want to keep their numbers high, then those numbers will have to come from somewhere else. Which is more satisfying to you? [/QUOTE]

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