Monster Templates as Paragon Paths?

[delusionalsyko]

I'm a tinkerer when it comes to roleplaying games. I can't help myself. I make so many house rules and half-systems that my group could never hope to play them all (I'm lucky if we play any of them!), and I was flippin' through the monster manual when I noticed liches. (I've only played ONE session of actual 4th edition D&D, albeit a two-day one. Very depressing.)

Well, when I saw liches, I remembered that lich was quite playable in 3.5e. So was vampire, and death knight, and the mummies... But the mummies didn't really have a cool factor. And mohrg's had a huge ECL. But that's not the point, moving on!

I'm fishing for opinions on the balance and mechanics of turning certain monster templates like lich, vampire, death knight, etc, etc, into playable paragon paths. The plan is to take the important bonuses that these creatures get and distribute them as they would be for paragon paths; a power at 11, 12, and 20; micsellaneous abilities at 11 and 16.

I'd also like to note that I'm more interested in preserving the nature of the abilities and the game balance than the power of the abilities. There's nothing wrong with cutting down the power of a template to keep it in line with other paragon paths.

All right, all right; this post is getting too big. My first post on the board and it's ginormous. If this catches anyone's eye and interest, I'll be posting again in a couple minutes with my first attempt at a template; lich. It's mostly done now. Keep in mind; rough draft. I just wondered if anybody else would be interested in helping me polish it off. That regeneration, for one, is really going to need some tweaking.

 

[delusionalsyko]

Also, gonna remove the 'recharge' on monster abilities. They'll be shuffled into encounter/utility/daily powers, like all paragon powers are. Anyway, yeah. Here's a rough draft of the lich, and a little explanation of my logic.

The lich template grants +2 ac, +4 fort and will, immunity to disease and poison, resist necrotic 5 + 1/2 level, +2 to saving throws, regeneration 10, and the abilities spellmaster, necromantic aura, and necrotic master. I do not regard the improved defenses and saving throws as important; they're just there to toughen up the monster, and this isn't a monster taking the template. Disregard.

11) Immunity to disease and poison, resistance to necrotic equal to 10. This becomes 15 at 21st level.

11) Necrotic Master: As the lich ability, changes damage type of attack powers to necrotic.

16) Phylactery: Gives the lich his regeneration and come back to life abilities.

11) ???: I don't have a power here yet, needs to be an encounter. Perhaps it could be some sort of healing power to replace the regeneration, which I seriously intend to tone down. Lets the lich spend a healing surge, and then remove the regen 10?

12) Spellmaster: A daily utility power that gives the lich back one of his encounter powers. *Edit, minor action.

20) Necromantic Aura: The lich deals 5 necrotic damage to anyone in 5 squares. *Edit, this is a daily power that functions for the duration of an encounter. Minor action.

The big changes I need to make are that... All paragon paths have some ability that benefits action point usage. This is lacking with the lich. I need a level 11 power. The regeneration needs to be reworked into something else, because regeneration is overpowered on a PC.

*Edit - I'll shut up for a bit now. See if anybody cares, work out more templates and details.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Neat idea.

First thought:
Perhaps toss darkvision in there somewhere?

Also does the lich have to pay the market price for his phyalctrepy or does he get it for free?
I'd be inclined to make him pay since he gets free ressurections.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Sounds like a good idea to me! I think you may end up tweaking the Paragon Paths pretty significantly in order to make them appropriate for players. For instance, a phylactery may not be appropriate for PCs, or a vampire's blood drain may be better as an Encounter power and spends a healing surge. Something like that.

 

[delusionalsyko]

You're right, Aust; I'll probably make it worth 3-7 paragon tier resurrections. I'll have to look at prices and estimated wealth. The darkvision, too. I missed that. I'll tack it on with the level 11 bonuses.

KingJay: I was more worried about that regeneration than the complete immortality from the phylactery. Lol. Combat balance is my first concern, the phylactery details can come later. And you pretty much nailed my idea for blood drain, btw.

 

[delusionalsyko]

Alright, for all who are interested, I'm going to post my first complete run through at the lich. I'm looking for constructive criticism; it's probably a little overpowered, especially the action point ability.

Oh, and ignore the Benefits to Monster part. Those are just notes I took at the start to see what the lich received. The player ONLY gets the listed abilities and powers, none of that +2 AC, +4 fort junk. That's just to make the base monster tougher; this is a player. The prerequisites do apply though, and they're altered from the monster template's requirements, obviously.

Lich
Prerequisites: Intelligence 13, Warlock or Wizard
Benefits to Monster: darkvision, +2 AC, +4 fort, +4 will, immunity to disease and poison, resist necrotic 5 + 1/2 level, saving throws +2, regeneration 10, spellmaster, necromantic aura, necrotic master

11) Lich Powers: Whenever the lich spends an action point, he may also trigger his necromantic aura power, spellmaster power, or regeneration power, provided he knows them. They still require the appropriate actions to use and maintain, but they need not to be available to the lich.

11) Lich Defenses: The lich gains immunity to disease and poison, as well as 10 resistance to necrotic damage. This becomes 15 at 21st level. The lich also develops darkvision.

11) Necrotic Master: The lich may change any attack power's damage to necrotic damage. If the power has an energy keyword, it is replaced with the necrotic keyword. If it has no energy keyword, the necrotic keyword is added to it.

16) Phylactery: The lich completes his phylactery. Should the lich die, it reappears with its possessions within one square of its phylactery within 1d10 days unless its phylactery is destroyed by this time.

11) Necromantic Aura: An encounter power that grants the lich an aura 5 that deals 5 necrotic damage as long as he sustains it. Minor action to activate and sustain.

12) Spellmaster: A daily utility power that restores one of the lich's encounter powers. Minor action.

20) Regeneration: A daily power, standard action, that lets the lich spend a healing surge to gain regeneration 10 until the end of the encounter. If the lich takes radiant damage, the regeneration does not function on its next turn.

 

[delusionalsyko]

I'm not sure if anybody's paying attention, but I'm going to keep posting my work and see if interest catches on. ;P I'm persistent. Just finished up vampire, here it is for your viewing pleasure. Again, benefits to monster aren't the player's benefits, just notes. As always, open to criticism.

Vampire
Prerequisites: Humanoid
Benefits to Monster: darkvision, +2 all defenses, immunity to disease and poison, resist necrotic 5/10/15, vulnerable radiant 10, saving throws +2, regeneration 10, blood drain, dominating gaze, mist form

11) Whenever the vampire spends an action point, it may use a basic attack or at-will power against an adjacent bloodied opponent as an attack of opportunity.

11) Vampire Qualities: The vampire gains immunity to disease and poison, as well as 10 resistance to necrotic damage and darkvision. This resistance becomes 15 at 21st level. The vampire has 10 vulnerability to radiant damage.

16) When the vampire successfully hits with its blood drain attack, once per day instead of spending the healing surge to regain hitpoints it may spend it to gain regeneration 10. This regeneration does not function in sunlight.

11) Blood Drain: The vampire may make a melee attack against an opponent once per encounter to drain his blood. The vampire must have combat advantage against the opponent. The attack roll is (strength or dexterity) +2 versus fortitude. The atttack deals 2d12 + charisma modifier damage and weakens the target (save ends). The vampire lord may spend a healing surge if the attack hits.

12) Mist Form: The vampire may become mist once daily. This grants him a fly speed of 12, the insubstantial quality, and prevents him from making attacks. This form may be maintained for an hour or ended with a minor action. Standard action to activate.

20) Dominating Gaze: Usable daily as a standard action, the vampire may dominate a target (save ends, -2 penalty to the saving throw). Aftereffect: the target is dazed (save ends). Only one target may be dominated at a time. The attack roll is (intelligence or charisma) +2 versus will.