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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 5047312" data-attributes="member: 66434">Quote: HussarOk, so, basically, it's perfectly okay for the GM to fudge die rolls in prep, but not during play in order to maintain balance.See, to me, the books say if I kill a given monster, it should have a particular treasure. That treasure gives a certain percentage chance of various coinage and magic items. It does not say anything about burying 25% (an arbitrary number I picked out of the air) of the value in some out of the way vault that the PC's are expected never to find.So, despite the fact that I'm given no guidance as to how much wealth is actually a "reasonable amount", I'm just supposed to know, somehow, how much treasure I should make unavailable for the players. Because:Quote:Raven CrowkingA single lucky roll does not net you a vorpal sword, because when the GM set up the encounter, either the vorpal sword was used against you (in which case, you needed to be lucky!) or it is well hidden/guarded/trapped. appears no where in the description of the vorpal sword. I'm not exactly sure how that wyvern is supposed to be using the vorpal sword, or why the wyvern has a very well hidden vault. I guess if I roll a particular treasure for my wyvern, I'm supposed to have magically inherited the ability to know how much treasure is the right amount to make available.__________________ I forked this topic off because I think it is worthy of discussion on its own. The discussion here has a broader focus than just 1E and balance. Feel free to discuss this topic about any older edition of D&D. A note about treasure types & tables: (these points are all from my possibly addled memory as I do not have access to my books right now) The treasure types shown for a given monster represent the optimum treasure considering  the maximum number of creatures guarding them. Translation: If monsters of species X have treasure type D for instance then what is shown for that treasure type are the possibilities for a lair of such creatures at or close to maximum value shown under number appearing for the monster. This means that if species X were goblins that have a treasure type of D and thier number appearing were 20-200 then they would have the full value of treasure type D only if the number appearing approached the 200 maximum.  A patrol of 6 goblins will not have such a hoard simply because of treasure type.  This is in keeping with the risk vs reward theme present in the game.  Random tables are there to assist the DM with ballpark amounts for a given treasure type and are not meant to be slavishly adhered to.  Guidance:  Since treasure is the largest source of XP, its availability and difficulty to obtain are major campaign concerns. The 1E DMG has an entire paragraph dedicated to warning DM's about handing out too much treasure. The rate of advancement is partially controlled by the DM who decides how much treasure there is to be won and partially by the players who decide the size of the brass ring they want to reach for. Too much greed expressed by facing very dangerous foes in the hopes of a big payday will likely result in PC deaths.  Exactly how much treasure measured in finite amounts mapped to threat levels quantified by some expression does not exist. It is the DM's task to determine these things for his/her campaign.  Difficulty:The difficulty of obtaining treasure goes beyond just how threatening the guardian is in combat. Traps/tricks and concealment of loot all add to the difficulty of obtaining it. The same amount of treasure might be guarded by a tough monster alone in one area and by weaker foes in another. The treasure of the weaker foes might then be trapped, hidden, or both. Recognizing treasure that looks to be too easily won and using caution is an aspect of superior play.</blockquote>

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