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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FourthBear" data-source="post: 4299636" data-attributes="member: 55846">Well, I thought the discussion was fine with MeMeMeMe and Spatula's posts on the subject, but if people want to delve into page 174 of the DMG, I guess I can.I think it's pretty clear that the text in the section on Armor does need to have the language sharpened up.  I think MeMeMeMe's calculations are correct from what is intended and makes the most sense in light of 4e's assumptions about defenses, but Spatula's calculations match what they give in this section, which is inconsistent with AC's definition in the PH.The primary problem is that the calculations in the DMG don't make sense.  The base of defense values such as AC, as given in the PH, is 10 + half level.  The half-level bonus is added whether you're in light armor, heavy armor or stark naked.  As noted in the actual calculations for the ogre savage, they are subtracting the half-level bonus as part of the Dex modifier.  This half-level modifier should be subtracted from all ACs before you start worrying over the subtraction of Dex/Int modifiers depending on heavy or light armor.  This is consistent with the way ACs are treated in the PH, so if consistency is desired, this should be the way ACs are treated.  My guess is that, as a shortcut, the designers use the Mod + Half-level value given in the monster stat blocks for these calculations and started to think of *that* value as the stat modifier.  Then, when they wrote the section on armor in the DMG, they forgot that this half-level modifier needs to be separated out from the calculations, since it applies regardless of armor type.I should note that while in the specific case of the drow here, the chainmail isn't a big problem as a treasure item.  However, as you go up in level, you will have the problems I noted, since the kind of armors needed to get reasonable ACs in the upper Paragon and Epic tier will need to be things like Wyrmscale and Godplate.  These are, by definition, magic armor and quite valuable treasure.  A DM should consider how to deal with this issue.  Currently, opponents have a Magic Threshold bonus assumed.  If this doesn't please the DM and players, I believe alternatives will need to be thought of.</blockquote>

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