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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5392334" data-attributes="member: 71571">You say 'Seriously, guys, quit trying to metagame using information based on other game systems and thinking it has anything to do with this one.  On the one hand, it's terrible RPG etiquette to metagame, and two, it's terrible logic to metagame based on game design you clearly don't have your finger on.  You're failing twice over.  Stop ruining the game with fail actions based on faillogic.'Cause that's exactly what they are doing.  Or a more polite version:'He's a Mary Sue.  Stop thinking he's anything at all like a PC, or was ever designed to be a PC.  He's never been a PC, and now he has the treatment he deserves.'This happen often enough in your games that it's an honest consideration for how games should run?  I mean... really.  If it happens once in a while, there's ways to handwave it.  If it happens so often that it breaks the system for you, perhaps you might want to try a less tiresome plot twist.Again, how often does this happen?  And they would be 100% absolutely wrong.  Show a mock combat where their adversaries are statted exactly like they are.  Marvel at how utterly short and meaningless that combat is.The game ended because the PCs couldn't handle an adversary designed to be a reasonable challenge of their level?  If they complain 'It's not fair!' remind them that they've tackled more powerful adversaries like this in the past, and that changing them from PC-compliant stats to NPC-compliant stats does make the combat unfair--it makes the PCs more likely to win.The idea here is that Monster stats are designed to do two things at the same time.  1-  They put the monster at a mechanical disadvantage to the players.  The players are supposed to overcome that monster.  2-  They give the appearance that the monster is at a mechanical advantage.  This is done by their higher hitpoint levels, amongst other things.So, if you want something that appears more powerful, but is actually less powerful, you need to make them scale using different numbers.  If you use the same scale, you cannot actually have both.So, in the case of a PC-scaled adversary, it's obvious where the power scale is for that enemy.  If it's less than the PC, it'll be less powerful all around, and the PCs will see it has less hitpoints.  It will appear to be weaker, AND it will be weaker.  This will not challenge the players.If it's more than the PC, it'll be MORE powerful, and the PCs will be at ITS mercy.  It will appear to be stronger, and it WILL be stronger.  This will destroy the players.If it's equal, then you've basically boiled it down to a coinflip.  Luck will be at play more than anything else.Monsters play by different rules because they have a different purpose.  PCs are the playing pieces of the players.  The monsters are part of the environment those pieces play in.  It is fair for them to have different rules, because they do different things.  If they did the same thing, then they'd have the same rule.</blockquote>

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