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<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5392520" data-attributes="member: 61155">For myself, I find that the elements of gameworld consistency lost due to this are more than made up for by the ease it provides in using NPC enemies without spending hours statting them out. For me, having the combat actually be an entertaining and challenging combat is more important than worrying about some artificial numerical consistency. Especially since situations where it is directly visible - such as when a player immediately turns into a fully statted enemy combatant - are extremely rare. &nbsp;That said, I can understand it bothering other people. So... don't use Elite or Solo NPCs. If you really need to, stat up NPC enemies using the PC rules. Add some minions or other foes to even the fight, or traps or terrain or whatever. &nbsp;You'll probably run into some lethality issues - PCs tend to be more fragile than monsters (due to the assumption of healing) but have more ability to nova. So if your PC Rogue turns traitor, wins initiative, and then Novas with an Action Point and two dailies, they might just kill someone. If you are ok with that, you've solved your problem. &nbsp;The Dark Sun example bugs me. Would it have been a better situation if the group simply fought some new monster who happened to be a solo with the same abilities as the PC turned enemy? It would have presumably ended much the same way, with the PCs dying and losing and the game ending. If the challenge was an unfair one, that's not a problem with the premise, that's a problem with the DM and the encounter design.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 5392520, member: 61155"] For myself, I find that the elements of gameworld consistency lost due to this are more than made up for by the ease it provides in using NPC enemies without spending hours statting them out. For me, having the combat actually be an entertaining and challenging combat is more important than worrying about some artificial numerical consistency. Especially since situations where it is directly visible - such as when a player immediately turns into a fully statted enemy combatant - are extremely rare. That said, I can understand it bothering other people. So... don't use Elite or Solo NPCs. If you [I]really[/I] need to, stat up NPC enemies using the PC rules. Add some minions or other foes to even the fight, or traps or terrain or whatever. You'll probably run into some lethality issues - PCs tend to be more fragile than monsters (due to the assumption of healing) but have more ability to nova. So if your PC Rogue turns traitor, wins initiative, and then Novas with an Action Point and two dailies, they might just kill someone. If you are ok with that, you've solved your problem. The Dark Sun example bugs me. Would it have been a better situation if the group simply fought some new monster who happened to be a solo with the same abilities as the PC turned enemy? It would have presumably ended much the same way, with the PCs dying and losing and the game ending. If the challenge was an unfair one, that's not a problem with the premise, that's a problem with the DM and the encounter design. [/QUOTE]

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