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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6594003" data-attributes="member: 6677017">One of the things that is worth examining when trying to determine a monster's effective level is exactly how the CR of monsters is determined, as explained in the DMG. Basically, it is based almost entirely on how much damage they can put out and absorb over the first 3 rounds of combat. Nothing else matters for CR. Even the features that don't directly influence it (such as flight) are evaluated by the designers based on how they effectively change the monster's offensive or defensive capabilities. If they don't seem to, they are ignored.3e did something similar, but it seemed to give more weight to things other than hp. In 5e, it's all about the hp.So in attempting to evaluate a monster and determine what their PC approximate level would be, you have to realize that there are a lot of features some monsters have that are pretty darn awesome, but have 0 effect on their CR. Things like change shape. Or permanent mind blank. The good thing is that at least the DMG tells you what does and does not affect CR. So for some monsters that means you need to use a different level determiner than just using CR.For most monsters (giants, dragons, etc) I think you can just treat CR as level, let them take a background for the skills and tools/languages, let them rearrange stats, and call it good.When you get into monsters that don't work so well that way is generally when they end up with the ability to replicate higher level spell effects, or--and here is a huge one--when they have immunity to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. (Or all of those put together, like the crazy good CR 4 couatl.) That is an ability that is way more useful for a PC, because you are rarely fighting creatures with magic weapons. Without some adjustment, a CR 2-5 monster could be immune to a large percentage of everything you fight for most of your adventuring career.By the way, I'd love to hear about people's conversion methods. I don't have one yet.I just assumed that the intent was that they would know any 4 specific spells of the appropriate levels. I don't think I'd seriously entertain arguments to the contrary.</blockquote>

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