Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 5052793" data-attributes="member: 94">Honestly? It's outside the scope of what I want to do. The Spine is part and parcel of the level-based (and HD-based) system. It's the smallest quantum I want to deal with.Well that's another question. It doesn't need to be CR9. But it is CR9, which is why I'm satisfied with its Reflex save.But since you bring it up... This came up recently when GlassJaw and I were discussing racial Hit Dice.Below a certain threshold, hit points lose their abstract nature and become a more and more literal measurement of &quot;mass&quot; and &quot;toughness.&quot; Some subsystems like Wounds and Vitality address this directly.If we put a more concrete measure on those &quot;lower threshold&quot; hit points-- say, for example, all hit points equal to CON, plus a fixed value for size, say +2/+4/+8/+16 across the increasing sizes, then it may be that a triceratops only &quot;needs&quot; about 30 hit points to satisfy a more simulationist approach. So you could certainly build a more &quot;realistic&quot; triceratops down around the CR4 or CR5 range.But you could make the argument that the wizard's fireball gets more and more abstract the more damage it deals. You're assuming that the fiery damage keeps a fixed, realistic ability to deal damage against a moving, abstract total of hit points; in fact both the damage and the hit points get more and more abstract as the totals increase.And it's also worth noting that Trailblazer does increase the fighter's ability to deal &quot;abstract&quot; damage as he levels up. A 10th level fighter deals more damage than a 1st level fighter, despite the fact that the greatsword doesn't change.But you define &quot;be what the trike should be&quot; from a simulationist approach; we can do that: see above.But from a gamist approach, the trike already IS what a trike should be: a CR9 critter. The starting point for the gamist approach is exactly that: let's make a CR9 challenge.Agreed-- the average meatbag perhaps isn't the ideal creature to discuss this, because it begs to be seen from the simulationist's point of view.The same thought experiment with a mind flayer might be more instructive. If you were going to make the mind flayer &quot;be what it should be,&quot; how would you start?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wulf Ratbane, post: 5052793, member: 94"] Honestly? It's outside the scope of what I want to do. The Spine is part and parcel of the level-based (and HD-based) system. It's the smallest quantum I want to deal with. Well that's another question. It doesn't need to be CR9. But it is CR9, which is why I'm satisfied with its Reflex save. But since you bring it up... This came up recently when GlassJaw and I were discussing racial Hit Dice. Below a certain threshold, hit points lose their abstract nature and become a more and more literal measurement of "mass" and "toughness." Some subsystems like Wounds and Vitality address this directly. If we put a more concrete measure on those "lower threshold" hit points-- say, for example, all hit points equal to CON, plus a fixed value for size, say +2/+4/+8/+16 across the increasing sizes, then it may be that a triceratops only "needs" about 30 hit points to satisfy a more simulationist approach. So you could certainly build a more "realistic" triceratops down around the CR4 or CR5 range. But you could make the argument that the wizard's fireball gets more and more abstract the more damage it deals. You're assuming that the fiery damage keeps a fixed, realistic ability to deal damage against a moving, abstract total of hit points; in fact both the damage and the hit points get more and more abstract as the totals increase. And it's also worth noting that Trailblazer does increase the fighter's ability to deal "abstract" damage as he levels up. A 10th level fighter deals more damage than a 1st level fighter, despite the fact that the greatsword doesn't change. But you define "be what the trike should be" from a simulationist approach; we can do that: see above. But from a gamist approach, the trike already IS what a trike should be: a CR9 critter. The starting point for the gamist approach is exactly that: let's make a CR9 challenge. Agreed-- the average meatbag perhaps isn't the ideal creature to discuss this, because it begs to be seen from the simulationist's point of view. The same thought experiment with a mind flayer might be more instructive. If you were going to make the mind flayer "be what it should be," how would you start? [/QUOTE]

Verification