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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5052951" data-attributes="member: 957">That is certainly a very fair point.&nbsp; What I'm talking about is pretty fundamental.&nbsp; On the other hand, I think being locked to a per HD model will limit a lot of your goals.To an extent, yes.&nbsp; But I don't think that would handle it.&nbsp; For one thing, I think you could say that a &quot;75 point&quot; creature is CR6 and then proceed to build three 75 point creatures that would reasonably be considered as CR3, CR6, and CR9. I think it would have to be a series of criteria.&nbsp; How hard is it to hurt and how much hurt can it take.&nbsp; What is it's best melee attack?&nbsp; What is its best ranged attack?&nbsp; What cool tricks does it have?&nbsp; Then it has to have &quot;this much&quot; killing power to qualify for CRX.&nbsp; But it must also have &quot;this much&quot; lasting power&quot; to qualify for CRX.&nbsp; And if it doesn't meet this or that criteria, it CAN'T be above CRX.&nbsp; (The trike here, a landbound striker.&nbsp; I don't think any trike you build could ever be a true challenge to a L9 party.&nbsp; Put it in a narrow, enclosed, anti-magic field tunnel, sure, but as a creature on its own merits?&nbsp; No.) Also you limit certain powers so that their presence automatically puts in a minimum CR.&nbsp; &nbsp; (Give your trike the ability to cast &quot;Wail of the Banshee&quot; 1/day and now in it is a CR10+ TRAP with an otherwise negligible monster window dressing)Obviously, this is already unwieldy and I've not put a single real number on it.&nbsp; As was said, way out of scope.&nbsp; The question is can you find a balance?The point buy / power level structure of Mutants and Masterminds applies.&nbsp; But that again gets into proscribing potency based on predefined PL (CR in hero tights), rather than building as should be and deriving and answer.As an aside, the best way to build a good trike with what we have right now would be to take an solid CR4 Elephant or similar analog and then make it be a TB solo monster and scratch off the name.And yes, the system MUST also handle Mind Flayers as well as HP bags.But is it really?&nbsp; I doubt it. The overwhelming asymmetry of abilities possessed by a L9 party against this type creature trumps everything else.&nbsp; My distaste for gamist approach aside, I think in this case the gamist approach fails even by its own standards.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5052951, member: 957"] That is certainly a very fair point. What I'm talking about is pretty fundamental. On the other hand, I think being locked to a per HD model will limit a lot of your goals. To an extent, yes. But I don't think that would handle it. For one thing, I think you could say that a "75 point" creature is CR6 and then proceed to build three 75 point creatures that would reasonably be considered as CR3, CR6, and CR9. I think it would have to be a series of criteria. How hard is it to hurt and how much hurt can it take. What is it's best melee attack? What is its best ranged attack? What cool tricks does it have? Then it has to have "this much" killing power to qualify for CRX. But it must also have "this much" lasting power" to qualify for CRX. And if it doesn't meet this or that criteria, it CAN'T be above CRX. (The trike here, a landbound striker. I don't think any trike you build could ever be a true challenge to a L9 party. Put it in a narrow, enclosed, anti-magic field tunnel, sure, but as a creature on its own merits? No.) Also you limit certain powers so that their presence automatically puts in a minimum CR. (Give your trike the ability to cast "Wail of the Banshee" 1/day and now in it is a CR10+ TRAP with an otherwise negligible monster window dressing) Obviously, this is already unwieldy and I've not put a single real number on it. As was said, way out of scope. The question is can you find a balance? The point buy / power level structure of Mutants and Masterminds applies. But that again gets into proscribing potency based on predefined PL (CR in hero tights), rather than building as should be and deriving and answer. As an aside, the best way to build a good trike with what we have right now would be to take an solid CR4 Elephant or similar analog and then make it be a TB solo monster and scratch off the name. And yes, the system MUST also handle Mind Flayers as well as HP bags. But is it really? I doubt it. The overwhelming asymmetry of abilities possessed by a L9 party against this type creature trumps everything else. My distaste for gamist approach aside, I think in this case the gamist approach fails even by its own standards. [/QUOTE]

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