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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5057834" data-attributes="member: 957">In the rare cases something Large or more is also presumed to be stealth based, there is always some environmental modifier in the form of a hand-waved &quot;big enough&quot; circumstance modifier, and/or the ever popular, all-powerful racial modifier that the size modifier goes away amid the smoke.&nbsp; And it can certainly make sense.&nbsp; The gargantuan people eater of Death Swamp is likely to be very good at remaining unseen when in the waters of the swamp.&nbsp; Whereas if it is teleported into the nearby forest it will find it much more difficult to hide behind a tree than Bob the wizard does.&nbsp; But how often have you ever had a gargantuan monster try to hide away from its native environment?&nbsp; I'd wager rare enough that simply making a ruling on the spot is far more practical than trying to worry about it.Imagine a stone giant ranger stalking a party in a &quot;giant's forest&quot; of 500 foot tall, 20 foot across pine trees.&nbsp; Maybe it makes sense to rule that the tree's afford the giant concealment to his scale, and thus he suffers no size penalty on his stealth checks.&nbsp; Whereas the PCs are so small compared to the trees that there is no concealment offered.&nbsp; Just as if the party were hiding near a barn in daylight.&nbsp; Either they are behind the barn and receiving complete cover, or they are in line of sight and unhidden.&nbsp; The giant ranger can position himself amongst the trees to remain hidden in exactly the same way a classic wood elf does in a normal forest.&nbsp; But even the party rogue can't move the thirty feet it takes to get around the tree quickly enough to truly hide in this forest.&nbsp; Obviously the example gets kinda tortured.&nbsp; But it just shows how size modifiers for large creatures stealth checks are kinda an appendix of the anatomy of a rule system.&nbsp; Its a completely natural part of the system, but it doesn't do anything unless it gets infected, then it can be fatal.When all is said and done, size modifiers themselves are static.&nbsp; If you really need them, hot down the full list somewhere on your DM screen or cheat sheet.&nbsp; Every large creature has a -4 size modifier to stealth.&nbsp; So writing that &quot;-4 size&quot; down over and over again is just baggage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5057834, member: 957"] In the rare cases something Large or more is also presumed to be stealth based, there is always some environmental modifier in the form of a hand-waved "big enough" circumstance modifier, and/or the ever popular, all-powerful racial modifier that the size modifier goes away amid the smoke. And it can certainly make sense. The gargantuan people eater of Death Swamp is likely to be very good at remaining unseen when in the waters of the swamp. Whereas if it is teleported into the nearby forest it will find it much more difficult to hide behind a tree than Bob the wizard does. But how often have you ever had a gargantuan monster try to hide away from its native environment? I'd wager rare enough that simply making a ruling on the spot is far more practical than trying to worry about it. Imagine a stone giant ranger stalking a party in a "giant's forest" of 500 foot tall, 20 foot across pine trees. Maybe it makes sense to rule that the tree's afford the giant concealment to his scale, and thus he suffers no size penalty on his stealth checks. Whereas the PCs are so small compared to the trees that there is no concealment offered. Just as if the party were hiding near a barn in daylight. Either they are behind the barn and receiving complete cover, or they are in line of sight and unhidden. The giant ranger can position himself amongst the trees to remain hidden in exactly the same way a classic wood elf does in a normal forest. But even the party rogue can't move the thirty feet it takes to get around the tree quickly enough to truly hide in this forest. Obviously the example gets kinda tortured. But it just shows how size modifiers for large creatures stealth checks are kinda an appendix of the anatomy of a rule system. Its a completely natural part of the system, but it doesn't do anything unless it gets infected, then it can be fatal. When all is said and done, size modifiers themselves are static. If you really need them, hot down the full list somewhere on your DM screen or cheat sheet. Every large creature has a -4 size modifier to stealth. So writing that "-4 size" down over and over again is just baggage. [/QUOTE]

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