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Monsters not dishing enough damage
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<blockquote data-quote="HP Dreadnought" data-source="post: 4956308" data-attributes="member: 55935"><p>I don't want the combats to revert to the old "he who wins initiative, wins" of previous editions. . . but I do want to feel threatened, and I don't want to have to deliberately look for ways to nerf our party in order to feel that way. It may be ok for the DM to occasionally fudge on the part of the PCs (something that never has to happen currently) but it is definitely NOT ok for the PCs to have to fudge on the part of the DM.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, a few details. Party consists of (all 12th level)</p><p></p><p>Human Fighter/Dreadnought</p><p></p><p>Dragonborn Paladin/(some dragony-path)</p><p></p><p>Dwarf Cleric optimized for healing - although we rarely need even a fraction of his capability.</p><p></p><p>Then, we have a rotating DM, so we will have two of the three following characters at any one time:</p><p></p><p>Eladrin Wizard</p><p></p><p>Elven Ranger</p><p></p><p>Human Warlord</p><p></p><p>My Human Fighter/Dreadnought is almost certainly the most optimized character in the group, here are a few details:</p><p></p><p>AC: 29 (about half the time boosted to 31, can get as high as 33 if the right powers are used)</p><p>HP: 121 (inc. toughness & +10 from dreadnought)</p><p>Surge Value: 30</p><p>Surges/Day: 14</p><p>Typical Damage/Round: 25 - 30</p><p></p><p>I can't remember the last time I used more than 7 or 8 surges over the course of 4 - 5 encounters between rests. Between my surge value and the cleric bonuses to healing surges, I never need more than 1 or 2 per fight. . . and I'm never bloodied unless I want to be.</p><p></p><p>I will brashly charge the biggest and toughest group of monsters, and summon them to me with Come and Get if every fight. What manages to get by me, generally gets stopped by the Paladin. Its rare for anybody else in the party to take any significant damage - in many cases they take no damage whatsoever.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Minions have ZERO chance against me. Assuming any actually live to make it into melee with me. . . I will generally have Rain of Steel available for a minion fight. . . thus the minions adjacent to me all die at the start of their turn.</p><p></p><p>However, that is beside the point because the minions pretty much never even make it into melee with me. Usually the mage will drop a wall of fire in a strategically important location - ending the minion issue, occasionally supplemented by a BW from the paladin. When the mage is DMing the cleric has this Close BURST 8 ENCOUNTER power that pretty much wipes them out except for a couple stragglers. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The point is that the minions DON'T force us to pay attention to them. They are so much fodder that as I noted, is generally dead by turn 2 - without me ever having to give them much consideration. Meanwhile I have tied up the big-nasty critters in melee and there's not much that can out-melee me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would say this typically describes an encounter for us up to Level +4. At the higher levels, I might take a significant amount of damage. . . but if I am doing my job nobody else does, and my damage is healed pretty much at will by the cleric.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe its because we have 2 defenders, and generally 2 leaders leaving the controllers/strikers to run roughshod over the opponents. . . maybe its just that we're all tactical geniuses (well. . . maybe just me. . . j/k). . . . but we are STRAIGHT out of the book + errata. . . ZERO house rules. . . and we're slaughtering the opposition. Something is not right.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="HP Dreadnought, post: 4956308, member: 55935"] I don't want the combats to revert to the old "he who wins initiative, wins" of previous editions. . . but I do want to feel threatened, and I don't want to have to deliberately look for ways to nerf our party in order to feel that way. It may be ok for the DM to occasionally fudge on the part of the PCs (something that never has to happen currently) but it is definitely NOT ok for the PCs to have to fudge on the part of the DM. OK, a few details. Party consists of (all 12th level) Human Fighter/Dreadnought Dragonborn Paladin/(some dragony-path) Dwarf Cleric optimized for healing - although we rarely need even a fraction of his capability. Then, we have a rotating DM, so we will have two of the three following characters at any one time: Eladrin Wizard Elven Ranger Human Warlord My Human Fighter/Dreadnought is almost certainly the most optimized character in the group, here are a few details: AC: 29 (about half the time boosted to 31, can get as high as 33 if the right powers are used) HP: 121 (inc. toughness & +10 from dreadnought) Surge Value: 30 Surges/Day: 14 Typical Damage/Round: 25 - 30 I can't remember the last time I used more than 7 or 8 surges over the course of 4 - 5 encounters between rests. Between my surge value and the cleric bonuses to healing surges, I never need more than 1 or 2 per fight. . . and I'm never bloodied unless I want to be. I will brashly charge the biggest and toughest group of monsters, and summon them to me with Come and Get if every fight. What manages to get by me, generally gets stopped by the Paladin. Its rare for anybody else in the party to take any significant damage - in many cases they take no damage whatsoever. Minions have ZERO chance against me. Assuming any actually live to make it into melee with me. . . I will generally have Rain of Steel available for a minion fight. . . thus the minions adjacent to me all die at the start of their turn. However, that is beside the point because the minions pretty much never even make it into melee with me. Usually the mage will drop a wall of fire in a strategically important location - ending the minion issue, occasionally supplemented by a BW from the paladin. When the mage is DMing the cleric has this Close BURST 8 ENCOUNTER power that pretty much wipes them out except for a couple stragglers. The point is that the minions DON'T force us to pay attention to them. They are so much fodder that as I noted, is generally dead by turn 2 - without me ever having to give them much consideration. Meanwhile I have tied up the big-nasty critters in melee and there's not much that can out-melee me. I would say this typically describes an encounter for us up to Level +4. At the higher levels, I might take a significant amount of damage. . . but if I am doing my job nobody else does, and my damage is healed pretty much at will by the cleric. Maybe its because we have 2 defenders, and generally 2 leaders leaving the controllers/strikers to run roughshod over the opponents. . . maybe its just that we're all tactical geniuses (well. . . maybe just me. . . j/k). . . . but we are STRAIGHT out of the book + errata. . . ZERO house rules. . . and we're slaughtering the opposition. Something is not right. [/QUOTE]
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