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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Savage Wombat" data-source="post: 6138351" data-attributes="member: 1932">Since it was ANOTHER three years (1994) before Planescape actually came out, I don't think it makes it Planescape material.  It just means they didn't publish the planar stuff until later.I also believe there were more than a few PS references in the 3.0 Manual of the Planes.  And your description of the pervasiveness of the planar material in 3rd edition materials continues to suggest to me that it was considered the core definition of the planes, not the "setting specific" concept you describe.Planescape isn't the "baseline" as you describe - Planescape uses and expands on the baseline created by core materials.  See, when you complain about Planescape showing up in other stuff, I think about things like the references to cant and spell keys gratuitously thrown into FR novels.  Or if a Dragonlance book had a wizard mention Sigil.  I can see being irritated at that.  But complaining because 2nd edition materials gave some additional character to under-developed planar races, and then complaining that the majority of gamers voted in a poll to maintain that flavor instead of radically changing it - that's not the same thing at all.I'm just not seeing your claim that Planescape players are "stepping all over" the discussion - I'm only seeing that the people who don't like the materials have an issue with the ones who do.</blockquote>