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Monsters that have been degraded over time that need fixing
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<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5780911" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Hey Greg K! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not exactly.</p><p></p><p>It was stated that some of the more powerful Pit Fiends were in fact Dukes of Hell in the service of the Archdukes.</p><p></p><p>However, there was an underlying conceit that these Dukes were more powerful than typical Pit Fiends. For one thing both Asmodeus and Mephistopheles were noted as having multiple 'Companies' of Pit Fiends in their ranks.</p><p></p><p>Pit Fiend</p><p>1E = 13 HD, 2E = 13 HD, 3E = 20 HD, 4E = Level 26</p><p></p><p>Balor</p><p>1E = 8+8 HD, 2E = 13 HD, 3E = 20 HD, 4E = Level 27</p><p></p><p>It just seems to me that they were forced into the epic tier simply to pad that tier out, rather than because they are epic monsters in their own right. Of course that begs the question what IS an epic monster, and there is no right or wrong answer there. But what we do know is that they definately were not 'epic' monsters in 3rd Edition nor were they especially powerful in 1st or 2nd Edition. </p><p></p><p>So adding them to the epic tier in 4E had a number of knock on effects. Firstly it meant that most of the 'actual' epic demons and devils almost got 'priced' out of the game and were left to the late 20's early 30s. </p><p></p><p>So instead of the epic tier being about battling demon princes, archdukes, evil deities and primordials, it became about battling maybe one of those, once you got to about Level 30. While between Levels 21-29 you just fight a bunch of stooges. It totally devalued the whole epic experience.</p><p></p><p>The epic tier should be about world-shaking events that can change the planet virtually every session. The epic tier should not be about an 80 encounter slog to get to Orcus. Orcus should be one of the first epic tier adversaries a party faces, not the last.</p><p></p><p>If they ever do an epic tier book for 5E it should not load all the cool stuff at the back end. It should be up front and in your face from encounter #1 at 21st-level. The monsters need to reflect this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 5780911, member: 326"] Hey Greg K! :) Not exactly. It was stated that some of the more powerful Pit Fiends were in fact Dukes of Hell in the service of the Archdukes. However, there was an underlying conceit that these Dukes were more powerful than typical Pit Fiends. For one thing both Asmodeus and Mephistopheles were noted as having multiple 'Companies' of Pit Fiends in their ranks. Pit Fiend 1E = 13 HD, 2E = 13 HD, 3E = 20 HD, 4E = Level 26 Balor 1E = 8+8 HD, 2E = 13 HD, 3E = 20 HD, 4E = Level 27 It just seems to me that they were forced into the epic tier simply to pad that tier out, rather than because they are epic monsters in their own right. Of course that begs the question what IS an epic monster, and there is no right or wrong answer there. But what we do know is that they definately were not 'epic' monsters in 3rd Edition nor were they especially powerful in 1st or 2nd Edition. So adding them to the epic tier in 4E had a number of knock on effects. Firstly it meant that most of the 'actual' epic demons and devils almost got 'priced' out of the game and were left to the late 20's early 30s. So instead of the epic tier being about battling demon princes, archdukes, evil deities and primordials, it became about battling maybe one of those, once you got to about Level 30. While between Levels 21-29 you just fight a bunch of stooges. It totally devalued the whole epic experience. The epic tier should be about world-shaking events that can change the planet virtually every session. The epic tier should not be about an 80 encounter slog to get to Orcus. Orcus should be one of the first epic tier adversaries a party faces, not the last. If they ever do an epic tier book for 5E it should not load all the cool stuff at the back end. It should be up front and in your face from encounter #1 at 21st-level. The monsters need to reflect this. [/QUOTE]
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