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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5922904" data-attributes="member: 42582">Then, as I said, I think we are playing the game very differently.Here are some examples of mechanics that relate to role in the story:*possession of Fate/Hero Points, in systems that have them;*4e minions having 1 hp;*4e PCs having lower hp than monsters, but healing surges and the powers to unlock them;*paladins, rangers and monk PCs in AD&amp;D having to give away their wealth;*PCs in AD&amp;D earning XP primarily from treasure.Many other more elaborate examples could be given once you get to games with Belief and Relationship mechanics like Burning Wheel, The Riddle of Steel, HeroWars/Quest etc.This isn't true in AD&amp;D. A character's saving throw number is not a description of him/her in physical or psychological terms. It's a mechanical notation that serves a metagame purpose (as Gygax explains in his DMG). 3E changed saving throws to be process simulation. A major change, in my view.It's not clear exactly what a PC's &quot;to hit&quot; number represents about him/her in AD&amp;D or 4e, either: is it better skill? Or a greater propensity to win when using combat? Or a bit of both?The rulebooks don't tell us. But they do tell us that hit points are a bit of both - even in 3E, I think, despite its otherwise process-simulation tendencies.I'm not sure that's true. In 4e, it is highly arguable that it is a mechanical indication of how likely your PC is to succeed if s/he adopts an INT-oriented strategy.And in AD&amp;D I think it may have frequently been played this way, even if that wasn't what the rules said.What are hit points for, then?Or, say, the &quot;Unlucky&quot; property in HERO?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5922904, member: 42582"] Then, as I said, I think we are playing the game very differently. Here are some examples of mechanics that relate to role in the story: *possession of Fate/Hero Points, in systems that have them; *4e minions having 1 hp; *4e PCs having lower hp than monsters, but healing surges and the powers to unlock them; *paladins, rangers and monk PCs in AD&D having to give away their wealth; *PCs in AD&D earning XP primarily from treasure. Many other more elaborate examples could be given once you get to games with Belief and Relationship mechanics like Burning Wheel, The Riddle of Steel, HeroWars/Quest etc. This isn't true in AD&D. A character's saving throw number is not a description of him/her in physical or psychological terms. It's a mechanical notation that serves a metagame purpose (as Gygax explains in his DMG). 3E changed saving throws to be process simulation. A major change, in my view. It's not clear exactly what a PC's "to hit" number represents about him/her in AD&D or 4e, either: is it better skill? Or a greater propensity to win when using combat? Or a bit of both? The rulebooks don't tell us. But they do tell us that hit points are a bit of both - even in 3E, I think, despite its otherwise process-simulation tendencies. I'm not sure that's true. In 4e, it is highly arguable that it is a mechanical indication of how likely your PC is to succeed if s/he adopts an INT-oriented strategy. And in AD&D I think it may have frequently been played this way, even if that wasn't what the rules said. What are hit points for, then? Or, say, the "Unlucky" property in HERO? [/QUOTE]

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