Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Monte Cook On Fumble Mechanics
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jer" data-source="post: 7694416" data-attributes="member: 19857"><p>Yes. In a game system where the player always rolls the dice to attack and defend, fumble rules make the game less fun. Sure you can incorporate crits on your defense to be opponent fumbles, but still the swingyness is more offputting than in a game where you're always rolling attacks. (And skill check fumbles are generally uninteresting to me - attack rolls aren't a big deal because you make a lot of them, but you only make a relevant skill check with a particular skill a few times per session. That makes a fumble even more annoying out of combat.)</p><p></p><p>I personally have stopped using "you fail" as an outcome for PC skill checks in general unless the immediate failure is dramatically interesting. Instead the PCs almost always "fail up" in my games. If you make the roll you get the outcome you want. If you fail the roll and failure is boring you likely get the outcome you want too, it's just that something bad will also happen. Possibly immediately, or possibly at some point down the road when a complication would be more interesting. I store up bad karma tokens as a GM and spend them when I feel like it would make an interesting twist. It makes the game less of a simulation of real life but more of a simulation of a drama and that seems to be a style that works. Monte's article seems to be suggesting something similar, except that my reading of the Cypher system is that GM intrusion is supposed to be an immediate reaction to the player's bad roll, and I've found that that doesn't work well for me personally - I do better if I have more time to work in the complication.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jer, post: 7694416, member: 19857"] Yes. In a game system where the player always rolls the dice to attack and defend, fumble rules make the game less fun. Sure you can incorporate crits on your defense to be opponent fumbles, but still the swingyness is more offputting than in a game where you're always rolling attacks. (And skill check fumbles are generally uninteresting to me - attack rolls aren't a big deal because you make a lot of them, but you only make a relevant skill check with a particular skill a few times per session. That makes a fumble even more annoying out of combat.) I personally have stopped using "you fail" as an outcome for PC skill checks in general unless the immediate failure is dramatically interesting. Instead the PCs almost always "fail up" in my games. If you make the roll you get the outcome you want. If you fail the roll and failure is boring you likely get the outcome you want too, it's just that something bad will also happen. Possibly immediately, or possibly at some point down the road when a complication would be more interesting. I store up bad karma tokens as a GM and spend them when I feel like it would make an interesting twist. It makes the game less of a simulation of real life but more of a simulation of a drama and that seems to be a style that works. Monte's article seems to be suggesting something similar, except that my reading of the Cypher system is that GM intrusion is supposed to be an immediate reaction to the player's bad roll, and I've found that that doesn't work well for me personally - I do better if I have more time to work in the complication. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Monte Cook On Fumble Mechanics
Top