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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7694612" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think this is another one of those cases where different mechanics can produce the same fiction. For instance, a failed Move Silently/Stealth check followed by the troopers winning an opposed Surprise roll (as per AD&D) or succeeding on their Stealth check (in some other system) could produce the same outcome.Or, in a "fail forward" or "stake-setting" system, the same thing could happen: in order to get the Stealth roll at all, Han's player stakes being surprised by other troopers.Or, again, it could just be failure on a surprise check, AD&D-style. Even rangers can be surprised on a 1 on 1d6. Or a failure on opposed Perception vs Stealth.In a hit-point system, that looks like it might just be dropping to zero hit points. Especially in a more abstract system like AD&D's 1 minute rounds.D&D is particularly unlikely to give "sword shattered" as an outcome of a die roll - there are certainly other systems that can give that outcome without needing a fumble system (eg Rolemaster via crits or via its parry rules; BW via its stake-setting-and-manipulation rules).In the case of Turin and Beleg, once again that could easily be the outcome of stake-setting in the context of a cursed sword. Or, in D&D, there could be a sword which has the curse "on a roll of a natural 1, roll an attack against one nearby ally". That curse doesn't require general fumble rules to implement, and in fact becomes less of a curse in a mechanical environment in which fumble rules are being used.</blockquote>

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